From $180M Exit to 35 Million Views a Month … The Content Machine Behind it All with Frank Greeff

Transcribed from the episode audio, so you might spot the odd typo.

Frank: If someone can ask AI to surface this inside about you, that's no longer valuable. It's hyper personalized, but just completely fake AI nonsense. Certainly do not use it for coming up with your idea. That's a very similar idea to the other thousand people who are doing it right now, because they're all getting the same results.

Alycia: I did not expect this.

Frank: Yeah, everything is becoming more and more vanilla AI, and the people are more and more starved for like, humanity and realness. Wow. People's appetite for a professional video is much lower. Much lower than it once was. Yapping is going real crazy because yapping is really hard to fake.

Alycia: How many people are you reaching on average now across the team in your own content group? Welcome to How Do I Podcast.

Frank: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Alycia: So people watching might have seen you build kin. So you are on every single algorithm. Like every time I open up my phone. Obviously it's geared to me, but if it's not you, it's one of the top. So you've done an incredible job with that, which I really want to talk about, but how I personally originally Found You was a podcast called to the fact that not everyone listening might have heard about it.

So take us back. When you first wanted to start a podcast, what was the thought process there? Why a podcast?

Frank: Um. Oh gosh. Okay. Are you taking me back a little moment? So, I don't know, I think I like I listened to so many and I, and I definitely admired a few people and like at that time, he wasn't quite the crazy story as today. But like Stephen Bartlett, diary of a CEO. And I was just like, that is so cool. I was like, that is so cool.

And what a cool way to to have conversations that you actually, like, want to have, um, meet incredible people and then and then and then obviously the, you know, the building a brand and all that kind of stuff come from it. But honestly, like, I just like, really like talking about business. So it was like my approach was, you know, people listen or don't listen. It doesn't necessarily matter because I'm having really great conversations. And then I quickly realized that is exactly what happens. But you are, you know, take you to the moment of deciding that, um, like everything in my life, it was like, you know, I think I told Kai, oh, maybe we should do this thing.

You know, it could be pretty cool. We do this podcast. He's like, great. And then I just started texting people I. I knew in my circle. And then I sent him a message like, okay, cool. The first ones like next week. And we just had to, like, figure it out.

Alycia: I love that. And like, because she didn't have to write like, you just exited 180 mil like you were, you know, had that time in between. You did over 100 episodes now just cracked. Yeah. Um, what for someone who hasn't heard it, what was about, like, what were you talking about on the show?

Frank: Well, how it started was, um, driving awareness to the cookbook with purpose. And so what I wanted to figure out is, like the intersection between, like, high performance, um, and business. And so, you know, where most of the guests were, like, business related. And so I, I think it's just like, I like a good story. And so often I was like drawn to, you know, the, you know, like someone's journey, like understanding how they, how they got to where they got to. But you know, if a person doesn't like business, they're not going to enjoy it in any way, shape or form because it's me asking selfish questions about business and then getting to like, learn and unpack.

Alycia: But there were like, there are a few things you did differently. So it was business. But like even the questions at the start, you asking them about their childhood, what is by that?

Frank: So I mean that was so like such a big stupid martlet influence. Like I really liked that approach. But I, you know, the big one, I guess, like the psychological reason behind that is like really interesting to understand, like what drives a person and then getting to, you know, hopefully figure out are there certain traits that make you know, that make a successful founder on the other end?

And I often get asked that question, which is like, what makes it? And I think now after, you know, after that, after meeting many founders, it's like, well, it comes in all different shapes and sizes. Like there isn't a you know, you must you must do you must do X. But I think, you know, starting there then really helps like ground as you, as you start to unpack the rest.

It's like, okay, that kind of makes sense.

Alycia: Yeah. And people have copied it now, but I think at the start it for founders in Australia, everyone was asking them the business origin stories and you'd heard them 7000 times. So then them coming on your podcast was like, oh, there's a point of difference. Like you're instantly having different conversations, which was really cool. Something else you did that was different, that was there at the beginning was you cooked for them.

Frank: That that was unique. That was very unique.

Alycia: What was that process like? That's a big commitment. Yeah. Having someone in.

Frank: It was where it was so much commitment. It was like so much commitment. There was a couple of reasons. Like the reason number one was like, how do I tie this into the cookbook? Um, but the, like, super strategic reason that I don't often share and how I will is my goal is like when I'm going to do it, I want to have the best conversation that that person's had. And my, my kind of my thinking process was, if I can get that person in a place where they're super comfortable and they're super excited. Then ultimately, the conversation they have with me is going to be the best one they've had before, regardless of being on the podcast.

And so my whole kind of job was the moment they walked through my home or I arrived to their home. I'll be in complete service to them. So, you know, yeah, they've got this guy who's come out, you know, come to do a podcast, okay? A bunch of people ask me to do a podcast, okay? The person has had a business exit. Okay. That's that's that's slightly unique. Oh, and now it's like, you know, before the conversation, you know, what's your favorite food? And I'm going to cook it for you. And now it's like wow okay. This is and it's kind of the sets the tone of like, oh, this is kind of one of one. I have never had this experience before.

And then so there's almost like a well, you're in service to me. So I'm going to be in service to you to deliver the best possible conversation. And, and that that was like the, you know, the underlying strategy, the behind the why.

Alycia: Yeah. And again, it was such a cool experience as a listener like hearing you because you did the raw audio. Oh yeah. Like I like, what are they saying? Like acai? Help us. Please. But like, especially spears, you feel like you're in the kitchen with you and you get, like some unfiltered little snippets beforehand. And again, once that podcast hits play, I think it's such a genius move for anyone starting like, what's outside the box that you can do to bring that in. Because again, if you're going after big guests, they have been on so many shows. So why will they say yes to you? What are you going to talk about that's unique or different and creating that experience?

I love that. I think again, the cookbook is an incredible cookbook, if anyone hasn't seen it yet. But a really cool way to give back that you had in there. Was that something you started that before the show, and then the show was kind of the way to amplify it.

Frank: That is exactly right. There were two. It was like I came up with the idea of the cookbook first, and then I was like, okay, great. Well, how on earth am I possibly going to sell this cookbook? And then I was like, oh, well, you know, people build these brands things, these personal brands, and then that becomes like distribution. And I was like, oh, perfect. And then that's, you know, it was the podcast was purely in service to that. And then, you know, kind of grew from there.

Alycia: Yeah. And a cool mission that again, these guests can come on. They can get excited about it. They feel like they're doing good as well. The guests that you've had on tell us some of them.

Frank: Before I even get to the who is. There's just some people in life where you just, like, gel with and so like, there's so many like, great friends that have come from the podcast. That's one of the biggest reasons I'm like, I'll never, not, I'll never stop it because it's the best way to have a really good conversation, meet someone, and then you're like, oh, we're gelling.

So you know, the one, the big one that comes to my mind is like Toby Pearce because like, we, you know, we we met for the first time. I was like, this is my guy. I was like, what a weapon. We did a couple more times and now we're just like, yeah, every time I'm in gold, Goldie. Every time he's in Sydney, we hang out, we catch up and all we do is talk.

Business is like an episode of the podcast. Yeah, I had a similar experience with Grant Hackett. Like that was a bit of like a wall moment, you know, as a as an Australia as as an Australian, as some of the international guests like I've made like connections now internationally because we kind I went, um, we were like, oh, cool, let's go do two weeks in the US.

And so before going there, just out of planning and like I met some amazing, like, really cool people. Um, not like some big household names, but just, like, doing really cool stuff. Yeah. The one I actually didn't meet internationally, but like, like crazy, crazy guy. Great story. Crazy guy in a positive way. Is the founder of grenade. Um, yes. Alec. Uh, al Albert. And like, that was, you know, he like, he was like, walks through the door. Like, so like tells a good story immediately and like, you know, stays, stays past. But just like the level of business and like, it's just like circle.

Alycia: And the thinking and like, when you then see that product in the supermarket, you have a whole respect for it. You're like, oh, wait, hang on. They actually do taste good. So yeah, that's really cool. Then you've done like over 100 episodes now. It started with just your original network. How are you finding guests once you've moved outside that.

Frank: So like pretty like the first 4 or 5 would be people I had known. And then beyond that, it wasn't, um, I just took the same approach that I take to, you know, everything into ultimately it's a sales. It's a sales job, right? Getting the guest. Perhaps. Fortunately, I was doing that pre. I so you know people when they were cold out reaching were often very boring and wasn't very personalized.

Now every you know is hyper personalized but just completely fake and nonsense. Um, and so like my, my, my approach was just like I had a guest in mind, just like I have a customer in business, I'm going to continuously follow up and do what is required till the day they go, okay. It's worthwhile. And so like for James Smith, that took me a year and a half and and you know, it was like it was very like moments of strategic where I'm like, okay, this is happening.

How could I tie that back to sending him a message that's like relevant to him, whatever that might be. And I think the last, you know, the last moment, I was like, I was like, you know, taking a photo of like, I was just going car shopping, and I knew he'd just gone car shopping. I took a photo of him, Instagram. And I was like, I do like, yeah. He's like, oh yeah, let's get on that. Let's do that podcast. It's just like, you know, so many people send one message and then go like, oh God, I don't want to be a nuisance. It's like, no one cares about you. Like they're going to move on with their life. They're going to Mark is red at some stage, perhaps they might tell you, like, stop messaging me.

Yeah, like, you know.

Alycia: Me like, but can I follow up in six months?

Frank: Yeah yeah.

Alycia: Yeah. Yes.

Frank: Yeah, yeah. So it's all, you know, it's just it's just like you got a dog with a bone. You just got to keep going.

Alycia: Yeah. And now the best part. I like to find those angles and everything. We've just done an episode with Jeremy Cabral.

Frank: Yeah.

Alycia: You know, and he was talking about how he actually does that with AI now. So, like, the full prompts and the way that he does it, he explained in the episode. So like, you can find that unique angle and be like, hey, this is why I think you'd be great. And then on the inverse, like, why you could go on a show. So I really love that.

I think as well, looking back at the show, something that was so evident from day one and definitely caught my attention as well with your clips and you invested so heavily in video production from the start. You obviously had Kai, but do you think that's the key to kind of one of those big parts of why it was so successful so quickly, huh?

Frank: Thousand. Million percent. Yeah. So like the the same way again podcast business. It's always the same. It's just like, what do I have that is unfair to others? And then I'm going to leverage it. Right. And so so that was a particular point in my, my journey. Um, you know, I'd been working with Kai in our previous business. He was a one of one in terms of like his creativity, his ability, like, he's like as a video editor and videographer and like, all in one package in Australia is one of one.

And he'd be the top one. Like, he's like the number one. And so I was like, okay, cool. Well I have that. So I'm going to leverage it. And so therefore like we're going to do trailers that no one has ever seen before here in Australia. And we're going to spend an unreasonable amount of time, um, and I'm just going to hire him full time. Now, that's contextual to me because I could do that. Um, the others the other was, you know, I would invite people to my home and then I'd cook for them. No one else, you know, has that skill. So I'm going to do it. And so, you know, it's just packaging up to someone listening. They're like, well, Frank, I don't have that and don't have car.

It's like, well no, no. Everybody has something. And so you just got to figure out what those are. And like the game of, you know, if you want to do anything well you're like try to be unfair. Not in a bad way, but in a leverage way. You got kind of way.

Alycia: Yeah. What is your one thing that no one else has? Yeah, really clever perspective. And those clips like though we have tried to like reverse engineer them so many times and like, hey, how do you do this? They're so good. They were so good at capturing attention as well. And even with like the rest of the podcast, obviously there was such a story arc that you brought to that, which I know.

Like now, hearing you speak is is a key part of you. Was there anything special that you did in your scripting or prep research phase for those conversations?

Frank: The answer is no. And the answer is again, like I, I came from the world of of sales. I just saw, you know, a conversation in a very similar light. And so what most people don't realize is that I will arrive almost blank to a conversation. There'll be no prep. There will be no questions planned. I'll have at max 3 to 4 arcs of like, okay, I want to get into this contextual piece.

I want to go to here later, and then I might want to bring it back to home. And the reason why is because all I am doing is then I can remain incredibly inquisitive the whole way through. And that was from I think a big part of that was from like I'd been on podcasts before. And, you know, the thing that humans have is like intuition. And when you're having a conversation, you can feel that person is no longer engaged with you. They're looking elsewhere. You can see they're trying to string in their next question, and you actually just start to lose the magic of the room. And I was like, I never want to do that or have that. And so I was just like, all right.

If the least amount of stuff that I have, I just remain. My job is to remain incredibly inquisitive and to figure out, you know, what I think others might be inquisitive on of, then that's like, that's just how a conversation goes, you know, what other people wouldn't see is like, you look at like Davos here like where he is today. He's like I think he feels like four hours. And then he chops it down to an hour and a half. So there's like all of this and then cut down to there. You know like I just. Most people are not there. And so instead it's just like just be engaged with the with the human like. And you're like, it's the human to human part.

And that's why I like I just refuse, except for maybe once to do it virtually because it's just. Yeah, it's not. It's just not the same. No, it's just not the same.

Alycia: And it's like, you know, the magic of podcasting for so many people is there's like five minutes before and five minutes after, and you just don't get that. Like you can a little bit before you say hit record. But like all of the conversation is just not the same. So yeah. Um, and I think as well, we've seen so many times with clients that like we used to script every question for them and they'd just be like, yeah, like just are so panicked about what was coming next.

And the magic is like those off tangent things. Yeah. Because you never expected that you end up with as well, which is really cool. Okay, cool. So something I have seen when you have spoken before is how I don't want to use the word obsessed, but I think it's the right one. You always like Dada metrics being the best. Like learning as much as you can. What were some of the lessons you learned from doing the podcast of like, you know, things that did actually make a difference to the growth, whether it was like the thumbnails, the show notes, the way you packaged them.

Frank: A few things. The the trailer and getting that, getting that first like that first hit right was critical. And the reason there's a strategic reason why when I started the podcast, it was actually I also just started my Instagram account. And so I had none followers. And so the job to be done was make this first thing so good that the person I'm interviewing wants to put it on their page, and then they want to collaborate over it.

And so then I'm getting to like, leverage their world into my world. And the only way I'll do that is it's got to be exceptional. And so that was one in terms of in terms of like, you know, YouTube The thumbnail is kind of like almost everything, but I don't even think we like closely. Even got to a place where we like figured that out. It was just continuous, like trial and error, trial and error, trial and error. But I also reckon now things have kind of shifted some when we first started. You know, people's appetite for a professional video is much lower, like much lower than it once was. And so now it's like figuring out how to how do you package that up in, in the new way.

And so, you know, recently Talia had gone back, she'd taken clips from the podcast and then just doing like top and bottom frame photos from the from the episode and then like, right, you know, so it's just kind of like always, you know, there's there's no answer that you'll listen to this because it's, you know, evergreen in two years and like, oh, that's the solution. It's more just like realizing it's all kind of the same. But it's like the packaging of how you deliver. It has to stay in time with where we are. And so we take that same approach now with, like if Kai puts together one of these like crazy edits, they actually don't perform on Instagram. No one cares anymore.

Like no one cares. But now we've figured out if you do like a reaction video of us sitting there on an iPhone and we're watching as crazy at it, that thing goes crazy, right? And so you're bringing the best of both worlds together. And so it's just like you've just got to like, you've just got to kind of e to the ground and see where things are moving, and then figure out how do you repackage what you're doing to where it's moving.

Alycia: Yeah. You and your team are absolute masters of content, so I do want to talk about that before I do. If you went back and you were starting again today. Would there be anything that you'd do differently with the podcast?

Frank: I mean, apart from the obvious stuff that I learned. So, you know, you do your first podcast, you listen back to it and then you're like, oh my God, Frank, how many times do you go? Um, yeah.

Alycia: Yeah.

Frank: Just like all that stuff. Just like the, just the minutiae of going, oh, God, I sound so terrible. But that's like, that's the regular stuff.

Alycia: Everybody has that. Like, even the content creators. Like, we're talking to Simon Beard and he's like the first ones. He just kept deleting them like he'd film. And he was like, oh, yeah, like we'd all do it.

Frank: I think the hardest thing about doing a podcast, honestly, in Australia and certainly for the space that I was doing it is there is only so many people. And so you kind of run. You kind of run out, um, you run out of individuals to interview, essentially. And so, you know, if I was going to take it really seriously, um, I would do a lot more either interstate or not Interstate international.

Um, or I would like probably pursue it. That's a bit crazy and wild, but I'm just like, I'm just being honest to myself because that's, you know, going when we were just in the States for two weeks, like, it's just an endless amount of amazing gas that people have necessarily, like, heard about before. Yeah. Okay. Let me instead share because that's not very helpful. What do I think is the stuff that we did right? You know, you just mentioned there Simon Greg guy. So not talking about Simon, but just in general people go like, oh, that's not good. Let me do it again. Um, the realization is, you know, if it's not good, no one's going to listen to it.

So don't worry about it. Just get it out there, you know, just get it out there and then do the next one and the next one and the next one. And like, you know, some day you might be like, oh, okay, I'm gonna delete the old ones. But like, no, nobody listening. So no one is going to pick up on those imperfections. So it's all good to just keep moving forward. So like the approach that Kai and I have always taken is if there's anything that wasn't good, don't worry about fixing it this time. Just remember it for next time and then and then next time, the next time and then. So we're always in the cycle of, you know, like when we were in again. When we do like these sprint moments, we could do four episodes in a day, like back to back to back just because, you know, it's like, don't worry.

Like look forward, look forward, look forward. And then I think one of the best things you can ever do with a podcast, and it's so weird to watch it unfold, is listen to yourself back. Yeah. You know, there's so many times that like driving back in my car listening to myself, and I was like, this is so weird. It's like, if only anybody could see this right now. Yeah. Or the worst I've ever done is.

Like, you're listening at night before bed, and you're listening to yourself, and you're like.

Alycia: Like weeding yourself to the meditation of Frank Lloyd.

Frank: But actually, that's the like. That's the biggest thing. It's just listen back.

Alycia: That'd be good content for myself. Watching yourself in the video. But like, yeah, because you can learn and pick up so much even I know for myself, sometimes when I've listened, I'd be like, oh, I wish I asked that question. And it's like, oh, okay, well, let's think about adding that type of stuff in the next time. Like all those gaps. Content is obviously going to be a huge part of this conversation before we do. It would be so remiss of me to have you on and not talk about AI. So what sort of tools could content creators and podcasters, what sort of tools should they be using, or how should they be using AI?

Frank: I think, um, there will be enough people that will tell you all the things that people should use. And so my focus will be on what you shouldn't use. Um, any time right now, you know, July 2026, when you're really good at a particular discipline and then you use AI, you very quickly realize, like, oh, wow, it's actually not that good at this thing just yet. Uh, and, and the biggest one for me is like how AI is for coming up with ideas or writing or, you know, creativity. It's all very boring and lame. And so the biggest thing I would always recommend is like, actually don't use it, certainly do not use it for coming up with your idea because you will quickly find yourself as like, wow, that's a very similar idea to the other thousand people that are doing it right now, because they're all getting the same results or thereabouts.

And so the biggest thing is how I use it is always to stretch an idea, not to create one. So it's kind of like, you know, let's say like there was just this morning I was challenging myself with this like thought experiment, which was, what would it take for Kenzo to go from 1 million to 10 million, and then the following year to go from 10 to 100?

Crazy concept. And I was like, lay down all these potential thought experiments and then go like, okay, now I hand it over and I go like, what am I not thinking about? And I said, like, what would, what would, what would have to not be true in order for this not to work out, you know, it's like the complete reverse to tease out that what I hadn't considered yet and like that's been very much the approach I've taken with the team is like, you know, never use it as the starting point.

You can use it as the place to challenge and refine. But please, for the love of good Lord, don't use it to create it like it's certainly not a great creative idea.

Alycia: Yeah, we've seen this, and I actually did a whole episode on this because I was talking to some creators, to some people that have been on a lot of podcasts, and they had found, like they were getting the exact same question. Oh no, because people were just using AI to do it, and it's like it's pulling from the same sources, the same research. And like, no matter how good your prompt is, it's still going to have like a little bias to the information that it's found. And so they were like, why am I getting all of these same questions. And so there's so much power in that. And just like again, that's coming back to what you initially said. That's your unique point.

Your thought, your brain, your like own opinions. That's where it's going to take. So your content, how many people are you reaching on average now across your team, across the team in your own content.

Frank: So on average, a rolling three month average, it's 35 million around the world to like 22% of it is Australia. Um, and that's up from like 9 million in December. So every month, 30 to 40 million somewhere thereabouts.

Alycia: And I think this conversation is so important to have because as you said, podcast clips is where you used to do them. They're not performing like they used to be so good they would drive traffic. It still was always that impossible task of like, you have a podcast, you have someone on short form, you're trying to drive them to long form. It's ridiculously hard to do. But for now, what types of content are working? You mentioned the reaction video. What else are you in the team finding?

Frank: I mean, there's a lot. Ah, so I'm I'm curious which way I should go here. Right. It's around what what is working or you know, is that going to decay so quickly. And so instead it should be like, how do you go and find what's working.

Alycia: Oh yeah. Really good.

Frank: So here's the biggest one for me when people are in in a niche, whatever that niche happens to be, you know, like, you know, this podcast is about podcasting. However, you know, it's within the podcast world, but there are many different worlds. What I find a lot of people struggle with is they they cannot take learnings from other worlds and how they figure out how to apply it to my own.

And so the biggest thing that we did when and when people say like, oh my God, like I hadn't seen it before when it came to your content was just like, you have an imagination where you go, oh, that's really interesting, completely irrelevant to my world, but how am I going to make that work? And so I'll give it like a really live example. On Sunday I just saw a, you know, I was doing some little bit of mindless scrolling. I'm allowed to occasionally I saw this video was like the behind this behind the bookshelf video of interstellar. And like the topic was, you know, a parent watching themselves back talking about how, you know, how easy having being a mum and dad is going to be.

And I was like, fuck, that's hilarious. And I was like, how does that apply to business? And then I was like, you know, thinking about it or thinking about I was like, oh, at that moment when you're in the interview and you wish you could go back and not hire them, and I was like, bang, that's it. Right? But like a lot of people would see that and like just move on, like, oh, that's irrelevant.

I don't care about parenting or I don't care, like insert million topics here. So the first thing you have to actually do is like, all you need to do is like find the find the trends that are completely out of your niche and you go towards the like the numbers and you go like, okay, that's work and that's hilarious. That's great. Now how do I contextualize that to my life? And I think that's the most important starting position, because a lot of what we've done is just go like repackage something, but it doesn't ever feel like we've copied because it's a totally different world. You know, we've learned from something like so when we when we first started, it was like, you know, who's crushing it right now?

It's like these 20 year olds in San Fran, okay? They're talking about this. Like, how do I how do I reverse engineer that to my world? That makes it contextual. So it's not very helpful to be like, hey, ABCd, but I'd say, you know, if I was going to give one very piece of crystal advice. You know, what's working right now is everything is becoming more and more vanilla.

AI and the people are more and more starved for like, humanity and realness. And so, you know, right now yapping is going real crazy. Because yapping is really hard to fake. Because you have to have, like, string, you know, a minute and a half sentence to keep someone fully engaged on a topic and show passion and enthusiasm. You're halfway lying down. You tap on on the camera. That's really hard to fake. Yeah. And that, like, really connects you to the human. And so like, bang. That's working right now.

Alycia: Yeah. Okay. And on that with human because you guys do bring humans characters like there's a whole world that you bring in, which I think we should talk about as well. But if you have a podcast and you want to bring some realness to it, those are the things you can think of that people could do for that.

Frank: Realness comes in like many forms. So, you know, my version of realness is I'm a little giggly boy. And when someone makes a joke or I think my own joke is funny, I will giggle. And I've had people say like, fucking hell, I wish the host would stop laughing, but they're like, that's just real to me, right? And so realness is purely to the person who is talking.

The biggest thing is when you're doing something that you know isn't authentic to you, people will sniff that shit out. And so like, realist is just really like, it's doing what you are normal with and comfortable with and you're not putting on a facade. And so, you know, I could never sit down there and talk to someone and have a conversation that I wasn't interested in. You know, if I was sitting down there and I was like, you know, I should be careful here not to offend someone. Um, you know, if my topic was on, you know, excellent creation of socks, and I had the world's best sock creator next to me, I probably wouldn't be that interested. And people will feel that. And so I'd say the the starting position is like, are you talking to someone that you genuinely want to.

Because like, my worst episodes were ones where I was like halfway through, I was like. Cut me off right now. And it was regardless. You know, like hundreds of pretty small sample sizes. So I shouldn't give this away. But I've had people with big whatevers and I was like, I am I'm working too hard here to make this work, but I'm cutting it off. And like, I was, you know, kind of in a polite way. Let's cut the kind of like cutting it short and wrap it up, because I'm like, people are gonna be able to feel how much I want to get out of this conversation right now. And I'd say that is the that's the. So there's no you know, there is no, like ideal realness.

You will feel that in your gut to be like, I do not want to be here. Like you might be feeling it right now.

Alycia: I'm like.

Frank: Can we be.

Alycia: Here.

Frank: Forever? No.

Alycia: No. But I remember that comment. And that's the reason that I asked you that question, because I remember when you had that person that was like, oh, stop laughing. And a lot of people would take that to heart and they'd actually, like, changed their own behavior. But again, that's maybe the reason that someone loves you over everything else. And it's just like, that is the thing that's like, uniquely you that no one else can replicate. And it's the thing that's going to stand the test of time with all this AI generated content as well. Really cool. Tell us about the Netflix analogy.

Frank: Hmm. So this one's made its way around the internet a little bit. Um, I'll give you a little bit of backstory. The one of the parts of, like, the concert content journey that 99% of people don't know about is, you know, prior to us having some kind of impact in creating some kind of noise. There was a year and a half of bashing our heads against the wall and trying everything we possibly could, right? So, like, our job to be done was figure out this machine, can we one day know, like, exactly what's going to work and just, like, have a heavy hitter after heavy hitter like that was the goal. Um, you know, it just takes half a second of scrolling on my Instagram feed to go like, oh my lord, this guy has tried it all.

Like, like if you go back there as a graveyard of terrible ideas that are there, you know, I was you know, I was reaching out to restaurants in, in Bali going, I'll film the like, I'll interview the chef and I'll do you know, I was like half a travel influencer because I was like, I'm going to go on this little holiday, so I'll give it a red hot crack.

Yeah. No one cared. You know, there was there's there's so many of those things. There's like Khan I would spend, you know, a full day, crank out a total of three videos and I get 200 views, and it'd be so demoralizing. Then, you know, then Jack kind of joined, you know, joined up on going, like, I'm gonna build a personal brand, too. And then we took it like double seriously. Now we rented an office. We came in every day. We would spend 6 or 7 hours just focusing on like, no, what is it? What is what is it? You get to the end of the day? Yeah, we're building a business. You know, hypothetically, um, at the end of the day and you film three TikToks and no one saw it, no one cared.

And you're like, wow, this is you know, the thing we we talked about at that time was like, wow, this is so crazy. Because, you know, we've sold this business, we've done the successful thing. And just because you're in a new arena that you've never done before, bang, you're starting from zero and it doesn't matter. Like no one cares, you know? No one cares that you've done that thing. Whatever it is. Like ours is very contextual. It's like you're starting from zero. Best of luck. And that was like. That was kind of, like, fueled us anyway. So then we spent another six months and then we started to kind of figure it out.

We started to kind of figure it out, and then we then we hired Talia, and we were able to then kind of sit down like hand over the hand over the playbook. And so like some of the perception externally is like, you know, Jake and I just hired a couple of influencers and moved on, like Tali and Lulu were like, they built a couple of videos, but we're, you know, we're all on this journey to like, learn this together. Um, and so anyway, back to the point. One of the things we realized in the early days was we found this like, I've been using the word arbitrage this week, but I feel like it's very investor heavy.

We found with this gap that no one else had seen just yet. And it was because, like Talia had joined and I had done this. So I spent all weekend. I remember it was like 18 hours, and I'd figured out if I could build a hypothetical business using prompts with AI, and I could create like essentially a blueprint. You know, every week we could copy and paste the blueprint, and then we'd have a video that we could do and we could repeat. And so I'd built this thing and then and then I was like, and then we're like, oh yeah. Tali. Like, you know, that video worked. Why don't you just talk over my video and do, you know, don't like, just do the same script again and then bang, her's worked and we're like, oh, okay.

And then so we started realizing, oh, actually the algorithm fully decides where you go. And even though we were doing the same piece of content, uh, it would get double, triple whatever the amount of engagement because you're just a new person. And so then like the whole approach for us is like, how do you think like how do you think like a Netflix, um, and kind of map this out on the on the whiteboard and we're like, okay, if we were a media company and we were like, Netflix, there was these different things you'd have to consider.

And if you think about the home page of Netflix, you have different categories. And so category might be documentary, you know, rom com, it might be, you know, and different categories suit different moments in time. And not every category is a heavy hitter. You know, some categories are hyper niche, but it serves a certain audience. And then we're like, okay, well if that's us, like what are our categories? Um, the second thing was, oh, okay. Yeah. Like Netflix has characters because if you watched every single movie or TV show and it's the same character as fuck, how boring would that be? And they were like, oh yeah, people like, you know, people like characters.

And the third thing was realizing that if you really think about the mechanics behind the business, what is actually happening is they're continuously taking shots on goal. They're figuring out, you know, oh, okay, that movie or TV series did really well. We don't go create a new one. We just do version two, version three, version four. And we just keep like rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat until you know we've gotten to the end of that season. And then everybody's like kind of sick. And then we move on. And so like putting that all together, you know, the kind of whole job to be done of the of the team at that time. And now we obviously continue going is like every day we take shots on goal.

You figure out something that works. The moment that works, you spread it across the whole team. So everybody can essentially like rinse and repeat that. And so all that's happening is underneath. You just got to like you just got to keep trying. Keep trying and keep trying. And so like now these days, like we'd be dropping, you know, 30 to 40 pieces of content every day is doing like 6 to 12 trials that no one ever sees.

Those go into a wasteland. She finds one that works. Bang. Now, you know, everybody is kind of like doing it in the. And the machine goes on and on and on.

Alycia: Yeah. I wanted to ask you that because with podcasts, often people have like a personal brand page, they'll have a podcast page, but then also they have all these characters in their podcast team. Like everyone knows, Nick. Nick comes here, everyone asks him about his sourdough instead of asking about the podcast. So like, you know, you've got these characters in your life. And not many people bring them into the show. And the biggest podcasts are the ones with those audiences that have the parasocial relationship that love them. They actually make them part of the story. And I think it's such a huge missed opportunity.

But the part that I love that you use strategically is it's like, okay, cool. Not only are we now expanding our reach into maybe a different audience we didn't have access to, but we're also like getting to use these formats that you spoke about at the start. It was like that video crashed. Yeah. How do I redo that for me? And then okay, that works for me. How do we really do that on that account? Trial reels as well. We've seen massive growth in some huge podcasts this year that like have been around for a long time, but they've implemented trial rails. And the way they do that is like, you know, it's similar to what you guys would be doing as well is like the text on screen.

You know, you've got your reel that's going out and you just make the variations of that before the episode goes live. And the one that does, like you just testing, learning. How are you guys feeding the data back in once you've obviously like learned this is working. How does that go into the next idea and iteration?

Frank: Hmm. So so we use a tool called Clip Flow. So that's my my my brother Jack and I investors in it. Um, and so simply clip flow, what it's doing is it will show us the winners of the month. Uh, we'll see those. The first thing we do is just go, uh, just do that for every one of the team members. So what does every one of the team members.

Sometimes it might be word for word and it's just a different person saying it. Or if it's something like a, let's say a silent storytime that's crushing. It's like, just change out the photos and replace the team members photos like I'm talking about, like literally just repeating it. Um, and so that's like, that's how it's getting fed back to the team is like, quite simply all that worked.

Can you can you replicate it identically if that works? Okay. Now it's works across everybody. Now we find out how to create like versions of it. And so you know like you know we we had to ban certain things in our business because if like if we had rent certain stuff so many times. And the reason why is because, well, you know, still 90% of the time it's going to people have never seen your face.

Yeah. Yeah.

Alycia: Which so many creators are scared off there. Like, surely if I do the same thing that like, everyone's just going to say the same content that you don't like? I don't see my favorite creators all the time.

Frank: You become a meme. You become a $180 million meme guy.

Alycia: But with 35 million, I mean, it's a pretty good trade off. Yeah. So let's talk about kids. So now, because this is where you are focused. You are so fully focused in here. The podcast itself has taken a little mini break.

Frank: I sure has.

Alycia: Because you're there, which I know, like again, for people listening, once you start a podcast, it can feel like this thing that you're like chained to for life. And you know, if you want to grow a big audience, you actually do need to do that. So in itself, I wish this was around when I first started. And speaking to guests that we've had on this show, there have been so many occasions where like someone has reached out in DMs, Danny Kennedy, he reached out to Homer's aid.

Frank: Yes, yes.

Alycia: He reached out. Said to Moses, I want you to be on my podcast. So excited! And Halmos replied and said, sure, let's do it. Daddy missed the message, and so now he's like reaching out to him every six months to silence nothing back but like that missed opportunity. And I know Ken. So like a huge part of the problem it solves is all of those. So for someone who hasn't heard about it, what is it and how does it help people?

Frank: Yeah. So the simplest way to think about it is, um, business communication happens in too many places. And so Kenzo were built one app and it brings all Gmail, slack, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram, outlook, calendars into one place. That's kind of like table stakes. You know, flicking between applications is like, not that hard. It takes half a second. The real bet that we're making is Inside All Your conversations is really rich context about you and who you are. And the problem is, with all the AI and automation and the shit that happens everywhere, everybody's inboxes are flooding more and more and more with nonsense. And so our bet is the inbox needs to know who you are, and it needs to prioritize what matters to you at a particular point in time.

And so, you know, it's not about just merging them. It's about actually then prioritizing. And then finally, once you have the priorities, it's like, well, then what can we do on your behalf? So I'll give you an example. Like right now I'm going through a capital raise 12 VCs this week, ten last week. You know, each conversation starts in LinkedIn. It moves to an email. We then have a calendar appointment. We move to WhatsApp group. And now I have, you know, you times 20 times four. There's just too much going on. And so then Kinsler knows that every morning at 7 a.m. it runs a task. And it looks across my investor conversations and it finds out who have I promised to say do something for.

And I've forgotten to do it. And then it prepares the drafts for me, ready to go. So that's kind of like the whole the whole play for us is, is creating this, this moment where people go like, oh, holy shit, I can't believe I used to bounce around and miss shit and, and and totally forget, you know, like the amount of times I've gone into my email and gone, was this in this email address or was it the other email address?

Or as you know, I used it there searching for of your emails and you're like, oh man.

Alycia: Actually. Was there a particular instance that kicked off the thought to build this?

Frank: There was no one moment. Like there's there's a couple of things. I think the big thing was, you know, we experienced this problem when we built our last business, and we just saw that humans are moving more and more towards like chat and chat became like totally normal for business. Like when we first started our last business, it was very like formal, like you sent each other emails and then now it's like, oh, you'd be chatting over Instagram, you chatting over LinkedIn, or you're chatting to a client on WhatsApp.

It's totally normal experience, but their problem is you'll be chatting to the same person on five different places. So it was just like seeing that, experiencing that. And then the one, the one crazy story is like the our last business sale. Um, the only reason I found the broker that I did is because he reached out to me on LinkedIn and he said, hey, Frank, I reckon dementia by and I reckon I can get you 180 mil, and I happen to check my LinkedIn DMs.

Now everybody listening. You might be like, yeah, but I don't have a personal brand. I didn't have I didn't have Instagram. I had none of that. I had like 12 people on LinkedIn and just garbage. So I was just like, I happened to check in that day and that's like that. You know, the missed opportunity moment.

Alycia: Which for podcasters and people growing like, we get cold outreach all the time. Yeah, 99% of them are rubbish. Yes, absolutely. Like there's so much and even like with, with AI, there's so much more like the, the garbage that lands in our inbox like we used to get. I always quoted like we get around 400 a month across our clients. I reckon we're pushing close to 1000 now, like the number of pitches that land there and none of them like they're personalizing their way, but it's just rubbish. But in there there could be an incredible opportunity or a partnership opportunity. And we've had a client that's missed one of those as well, like the best partnership that is just like slid into their DMs, being like, hey, love the show.

I actually work for this brand. They didn't see it for three months, So I think it is something that's really, really powerful for someone to have a look at, like how they can bring all of those places together because we need to, again, as podcasters, be across so many platforms you can't like, someone might reach out to you on LinkedIn, you might not use it. I don't use LinkedIn, but I'm sure there's a great number of emails that I need to look at. So really genius idea. You are currently in waitlist for it though as well. So if someone does want to get to be part of it, what's the best way to do that?

Frank: Just jump onto the website so-i, go on the on the waitlist or send me a message on any platform. Like at the moment, we're bringing people off the waitlist if they're creative enough with their arsenal jokes, but it's.

Alycia: You have a random Friday that you're like, hey, we'll let 100.

Frank: People. Well, we'll be having a few more of those random foreigners very soon. Yeah, we're moving now, so we'll be doing another, um, another drop to another hundred people probably next week or the week after. And then we're going to start. We're starting ramping up. Things are getting serious.

Alycia: Okay, I don't think. Good. I'm excited. I don't think there'd be many people that have it inbox as crazy as yours. Particularly like when you did have the podcast as well. What do you think is the best way to capture someone's attention?

Frank: Consistency is a really big one. Uh, but you know, you can't just do anything consistently like, hey, following up, following up like.

Alycia: Day one of.

Frank: Asking, hey, you know, there's a bit of those going on at the moment and you're like, they've kind of lost, you know? The hardest something is the more scarce something is, the more valuable something is. And so something like I'm following you up every day until we chat is no longer valuable because, well, I could just create an automation that'll do that forever. And so therefore I'm not like, wow, this person is so dedicated, right? And so I'd say it's just like you think through that frame, what what what makes this completely unique. And if someone can ask AI to surface this inside about you, that's no longer valuable. So the amount of ones I get is like, hey, Frank, I've been following your journey since, you know, insert first business and couldn't believe that second business and like And it's like you've clearly just pulled that down from the internet.

So you have to kind of look through the lens of like, okay, what is going to what is going to make this that someone hasn't seen before? And the most powerful version of that is, is finding a way to, to create their attention without them realizing. And so what do I mean? You know, there's a lot of people that you would want to have on a podcast that don't have mega audiences.

They're just like in your niche. They're like impressive. Um, they've been out there posting content and it's like, go and give them some love and remain consistent. Like there's so many people that I've done, like now mentoring sessions with. I've like invited to places, done all these things, or they've come work for my office just because they showed up on on the early days. And I do love that post, I would say, and they're never trying to ask for anything. They were just there. And before you know it, you know, like their little avatars in my mind, I'm like, oh yeah, I feel like I know that person. Today is the first time we've met. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like. And then I'm like when, like, I feel like I've seen your face on the ice in the world for a long time, you know?

And so, like, you reach out, I'm like, yeah, no worries, because you're not. It's not like immediately I'm asking because everybody's asking for things all the time. And so, you know, like. Like just realize that you don't need to like ask. And then the next day they say, yes. It's just like trying again, trying to, like, be in service, give like be of value there for some period of time before you go in for the ask.

Like I mentioned before, it took a year for James to come on the podcast. I didn't even go in for the kill of the ask for like, you know, probably most of that time because I was just trying to like, you know, be there, be in the little world.

Alycia: Yeah. It's been such good advice. And even just like, as simple as this will sound crazy, as simple as listening to the podcast before you ask to be a guest on it. Like the number of people that reach out. I had someone and they wanted to like, come on the podcast to talk about their business success. I was like, um, hi, not sure how this relates. Do you have a podcast? Like. And it was just so evident in that and like you can just tell, but that then I have that association with that person now. Probably wasn't her. Probably had nothing to do with like she probably had an AI agent or a PR person sending it, but instead in my head I'm like, oh, like, okay, you do not do your research.

If you had to give someone who was wanting to start a personal brand or grow their podcast, start a podcast, one piece of advice, what would it be?

Frank: The first thing that comes to my mind is it might be like a bit vanilla and generic because I feel like we've heard it many times, but it's so true. So like, yeah, we've all heard that stat about podcast. You know, you want to be in the top 1%. You got to be just past episode 21. You got to be in the top, you know? Yeah. Go to episode 40 and you're in the top 1% in the world. It's just like, because so many people give up, um, and just, you know, the again, you go back to this, this idea of the content of like, like I think I did like 500 videos across a year and a half. I had no reason I needed to do that. You know, we'd had a successful exit and stuff like that, but it's just like, you're just gotta you gotta just remain there and be consistent and persistent.

Like that's the that's literally the biggest game. It's just I keep trying to show up and every time do it like slightly uniquely, slightly differently and just be willing to do some crazy shit. Like, you know, we're talking about guests a second ago, and one of the ones I've forgotten, I was trying to get Chris Williamson on the podcast, and so I was like, okay, um, how might I do that?

I'd built a relationship with James. James knows Chris. Okay, cool. So I said, hey, James, let's go take our cars to a track day. And it wasn't specifically just for Chris, but I thought, hey, what a great opportunity that would be, you know? And so I took James to a track day. We had a great day. And then I knew, you know, later Chris was going to be coming to a Sydney.

And so then, you know, at the right time. Hey James. Oh dude I would love to go see see Chris. He's like, oh, I can get you through the door. Okay, great. So now I'm in the door, I'm at Chris Williams's live show and at the end there's a meet and greet. I'm like, okay, well, no one is ever going to remember the first guy. So I stayed there until 1 a.m. again. It's a Saturday night. I have no reason to be there, you know, like I have no reason. This podcast does not need to be a success, but I just sat there in this chair until 1 a.m., waiting in this line and going longer and long and long. And finally, at the very end, I'm the last guy.

Okay, now I've got a cookbook with his, you know, like, written message for him. So I'm the last guy who runs. He's still on the podcast. You know, it may never even happen, but it's just like you're kind of willing to do the unreasonable. And so, you know, one day they may happen, but it's like, just like, just be there and just realize again, are things are worth doing are hard.

And you need to like you need to show value, and value can be done through just fucking people go like, fuck, that's a lot of effort.

Alycia: I forgot all about that story.

Frank: That was yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alycia: It was so crazy. I love that. And like, again, it's paid off, right?

Frank: Well no it hasn't. He's never come on. You know like that's the whole point. It's like no it hasn't. And that's the beautiful part. It's like Sam is business. Sam is like, you don't even know that these things are going to pay off. They may never pay off. And that's part of the process.

Alycia: I feel like you'd remember that.

Frank: He never you won't. you'll never have any one. But like it's happened, it's worked before. But it's just like. And that's the beautiful part that people get like, oh no, that didn't work so much effort because like, you're putting too much stock on the one thing like you got to you got to be taking those kind of shots on goal at all time. Because at some stage, if that's what you're doing all the time, it will pay off. Maybe not on that one, but somewhere along the line. And that's the that's the key.

Alycia: I literally I saw a clip yesterday and it was like, if this is your goal, show me what's in your calendar today to get you to that goal. And it's like such a cliche piece of advice. You hear it all the time, but it's like, what are those actions that you're doing if you want to be the top 1%, you want to interview him. Where's the movement then? The question that I have for you, if you had to do a podcast that was not about business, what would it be about?

Frank: I don't feel nearly qualified enough to do it, but something that's on my mind a lot. God, we're going to get deep here. Nice. Once the influential men in my age bracket, none of them are dads. Not one of them, like, I don't I can't think of one that's in my mind. You know, they're talking about topics that were really, really great, um, and whatever, but not one of them isn't a dad. And so I feel like kind of like uniquely positioned there because I just love being a dad and kids are so hard, but they're they're just the best things in the world.

And I feel like I would probably spend more time on there. And I and I often wrestle with that because, you know, we get lots of attention and eyeballs and that kind of stuff. And you're like, oh, I don't really want my kids on my I don't want them to be seen by randoms. But at the same time, I also would like I'd like to show up as a figure to like encourage males in, in my generation to be like, hey, being a dad is the best thing in the world and like your your, your job should be like, how can I raise incredible kids?

And like, not enough people slash anybody in my category talks like that. And I think that's what I do.

Alycia: I love that. Have you listened to Hamish Blake's How are they dads, dad?

Frank: Uh, I haven't.

Alycia: Oh, you'll love it.

Frank: Yeah, I'll send it. I think I've heard good things. I can't I can't pretend that I listened to a lot of that. That stuff.

Alycia: Yeah, it was when we were driving to Victoria and we just, like, had it on in the car and like, the stories in there. Yeah, they're so cool. But like, I love that it doesn't answer the question that I asked everyone to. The podcast is, what is one podcast that's regularly on your rotation and why do you keep coming back?

Frank: I'm so sorry. I don't want to know. Oh, God. Good Lord. Leisa. No, you shouldn't have asked that. Oh, God.

Alycia: It's a clip.

Frank: Yeah, this is it. Oh, no, no, no, I'm getting canceled for sure. Um, okay. I have a really weird thing where I can't fall asleep at night unless I'm listening to a podcast. Uh, I really hope mobile phones don't give me brain cancer. I've really, genuinely hope, because I've been doing this for years. Um, and I can't listen to anything about business because it's way too stimulating.

And I learned that in the early years. Like, I just I could sit up there for 3 hours or 4 hours. Um, so my, like, super guilty pleasure is American politics. And that comes in like many different forms. I'm probably not going to name names because I'm getting cancer for sure. Um, I just really it's for some reason that's like intriguing enough, but not too intriguing that I will fall asleep.

And so, you know, insert American political Commentator podcast here.

Alycia: Wow. I did not expect this.

Frank: Yeah. Or a good conspiracy. You know, like, so like, you know, a Joe Rogan alien. Like one of those topics, like he's at the moment is boring a shit. But if there's a topic about aliens, conspiracies or politics, man, I'm listening to that shit about time. Every night time.

Alycia: And it's so far fetched that it probably is like it feels like a dream anyway, because you listen to this stuff, you're like, how can this be real? I love this.

Frank: So yeah.

Alycia: It is incredible having you on. Where is the best place for people to connect with you?

Frank: Um, I don't know.

Alycia: Uh, you can go anywhere, but they can find you.

Frank: Yeah. Insert one of the places here. Instagram's good.

Alycia: Yeah. Cool. Perfect. We'll pop it in the show notes. But thank you so much for coming on.

Frank: My pleasure. Thank you.

Alycia: The occasions where, like, someone has reached out in Dan's Danny Kennedy. He reached out to home Thursday.

Frank: Yes, yes.

Alycia: Years ago. Reached out, said to me, I want you to be on my podcast. So excited. And he replied and said, sure, let's do it. Danny missed the message. And so now he's like reaching out to him every six months. Silence. Nothing back but like that. Missed opportunity. And I know Ken. So like a huge part of the problem it solves is all of those. So for someone who hasn't heard about it, what is it and how has it helped people?

Frank: Yeah. So the simplest way to think about it is, um, business communication happens in too many places. And so Kenzo were built one app and it brings all Gmail, slack, LinkedIn, WhatsApp, Instagram, outlook, calendars into one place. That's kind of like table stakes. You know, flicking between applications is like, not that hard. It takes half a second. The real bet that we're making is Inside All Your conversations is really rich context about you and who you are. And the problem is with all of the AI and automation and the shit that happens everywhere, everybody's inboxes are flooding more and more and more with nonsense. And so our bet is the inbox needs to know who you are, and it needs to prioritize what matters to you at a particular point in time.

And so, you know, it's not about just merging them. It's about actually then prioritizing. And then finally, once you have the priorities, it's like, well, then what can we do on your behalf? So I'll give you an example. Like right now I'm going through a capital raise 12 VCs this week, ten last week. You know, each conversation starts in LinkedIn. It moves to an email. We then have a calendar appointment. We moved to WhatsApp group. And now I have, you know, you times 20 times for there's just too much going on. And so then Kinston knows that every morning at 7 a.m. it runs a task and it looks across my investor conversations and it finds out who I've I promised to do something for, and I've forgotten to do it.

And then it prepares the drafts for me, ready to go. So that's kind of like the whole the whole play for us is, is creating this, this moment where people go like, oh, holy shit, I can't believe I used to bounce around and miss shit and totally forget, you know, like the amount of times I've gone into my email and gone, was this in this email address or was it the other email address?

Or, you know, I used it there searching for of your emails and you're like, oh man.

Alycia: Actually, was there a particular instance that kicked off the thought to build this?

Frank: There was no one moment. Like there's there's a couple of things. I think the big thing was, you know, we experienced this problem when we built our last business, and we just saw that humans are moving more and more towards like chat and chat became like totally normal for business. Like when we first started our last business, it was very formal, like you sent each other emails and then now it's like, oh, you'd be chatting over Instagram or you chatting over LinkedIn, or you're chatting to a client on WhatsApp.

It's totally normal experience, but their problem is you'll be chatting to the same person on five different places. So it was just like seeing that, experiencing that. And then the one, the one crazy story is like the our last business sale. Um, the only reason I found the broker that I did is because he reached out to me on LinkedIn and he said, hey, Frank, I reckon domain should buy and I reckon I can get you 180 mil.

And I happen to check my LinkedIn DMs now. Everybody listening? You might be like, yeah, but I don't have a personal brand. I didn't have, I didn't have Instagram. I had none of that. I had like 12 people on LinkedIn and just garbage. So it was just like I happened to check in that day and that's like that, you know, the missed opportunity moment.

Alycia: Which for podcasters.

Frank: And if someone can ask AI to surface this inside about you, that's no longer valuable.

Alycia: Wow. I did not expect this.

Frank: Yeah. Or now every you know is hyper personalized, but just completely fake AI nonsense. Certainly do not use it for coming up with your idea. That's a very similar idea to the other thousand people that are doing it right now, because they're all getting the same results. Everything is becoming more and more vanilla AI and and the people are more and more starved for like humanity and realness.

People's appetite for a professional video is much lower. Like much lower than it once was. Yapping is going real crazy because yapping is really hard to fake.

Alycia: For now, what types of content are working? You mentioned the reaction video. What else are you in? The team finding all of those places together because we need to. Again, this podcast is big across so many platforms. You can't like someone might reach out to you on LinkedIn. You might not use it. I don't use LinkedIn, but I'm sure there's a great number of emails that I need to look at.

So really genius idea. You are currently in waitlist for it though as well, so if someone does want to get to be part of it, what's the best way to do that?

Frank: Just jump onto the website so-i, go on the on the waitlist or send me a message on any platform. Like at the moment, we're bringing people off the waitlist if they're creative enough with their arsenal jokes.

Alycia: But it's you have a random Friday that you're like, hey, have a little 100.

Frank: Yeah, we'll be having a few more of those random partners very soon. Yeah, we're moving now, so we'll be doing another, um, another drop to another hundred people probably next week or the week after. And then we're going to start we're starting ramping up. Things are getting serious.

Alycia: Okay, I don't think. Good. I'm excited. I don't think there'd be many people that have an inbox as crazy as yours. Particularly like when you did have the podcast as well. What do you think is the best way to capture someone's attention?

Frank: Consistency is a really big one. Uh, but you know, you can't just do anything consistently like, hey, following up, following up like.

Alycia: Day one of.

Frank: Asking. Yeah. You know, there's a bit of those going on at the moment and you're like, they've kind of lost, you know. The harder something is, the more scarce something is, the more valuable something is. And so something like I'm following you up every day until we chat is no longer valuable because, well, I could just create an automation that'll do that forever. And so therefore I'm not like, wow, this person is so dedicated. Right. And so I'd say it's just like you think through that frame, what, what what makes this completely unique. And if someone can ask AI to surface this insight about you, that's no longer valuable. So the amount of ones I get is like, hey, Frank, I've been following your journey since, you know, insert first business and couldn't believe the second business and like and it's like you've clearly just pulled that down from the internet.

So you have to kind of look through the lens of like, okay, what is going to what is going to make this that someone hasn't seen before? And the most powerful version of that is, is finding a way to, to create their attention without them realizing. And so what do I mean? You know, there's a lot of people that you would want to have on a podcast that don't have mega audiences.

They're just like in your niche. They're like impressive. Um, they've been out there posting content and it's like, go and give them some love and remain consistent. Like there's so many people that I've done, like now mentoring sessions with. I've like invited to places, done all these things, or they've come work for my office just because they showed up on on the early days and they're like, dude, love that post, I would say.

And they'll never trying to ask for anything. They were just there and before you know it. Yeah, like they're little avatars in my mind. I'm like, oh yeah, I feel like I know that person. Today is the first time we've met. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like. And then I'm like when, like, I feel like I've seen your face on the In the world for a long time, you know.

And so, like, you reach out, I'm like, yeah, no worries, because you're not. It's not like immediately I'm asking because everybody's asking for things all the time. And so, you know, like like just realize that you don't need like ask. And then the next day they say, yes. It's just like trying again, trying to, like, be in service, give like be of value there for some period of time before you go in for the ask.

Like I mentioned before, it took a year for James to come on the podcast. I didn't even go in for the kill of the ask for like, you know, probably most of that time because I was just trying to like, you know, be there, be in the little world.

Alycia: Yeah. It's such good advice. And even just like, as simple as this will sound crazy, as simple as listening to the podcast before you ask to be a guest on it. Like the number of people that reach out. I had someone and they wanted to like, come on the podcast to talk about their business success. I was like, um, hi, not sure how this relates. Do you have a podcast like. And it was just so evident in that. And like you can just tell, but that then I have that association with that person now probably wasn't her. It probably had nothing to do with like she probably had an AI agent or a PR person sending it. But in my head I'm like, oh, like, okay, you do not do your research.

If you had to give someone who was wanting to start a personal brand or grow their podcast, start a podcast. One piece of advice what would it be?

Frank: The first thing that comes to my mind is it might be like a bit vanilla and generic because I feel like we've heard it many times, but it's so true. So like, yeah, we've all heard that stat about podcast. You know, you want to be in the top 1%. You've got to be just past episode 21. You've got to be in the top, you know? Yeah. Go to episode 40 and you're in the top 1% in the world. It's just like, because so many people give up, um, and just, you know, the again, you go back to this, this idea of the content of like, like I think I did like 500 videos across a year and a half. I had no reason I needed to do that. You know, we'd had a successful exit and stuff like that, but it's just like, you just gotta you gotta just remain there and be consistent and persistent like that's the.

That's literally the biggest game. It's just like, keep trying to show up and every time. Do it like slightly uniquely, slightly differently and just be willing to do some crazy shit. Like, you know, we're talking about guests a second ago and one of the ones I've forgotten. I was trying to get Chris Williamson on the podcast. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, um. How might I do that? I'd built a relationship with James. James knows Chris. Okay, cool. So I said, hey, James, let's go take our cars to a track day. And it wasn't specifically just for Chris, but I thought, hey, what a great opportunity that would be. You know, and so I took James to a track day.

We had a great day. And then I knew, you know. Later Chris was going to be coming to us Sydney. And so then, you know, at the right time. Hey, James. Oh, dude, I would love to go see see Chris. He's like, oh, I can get you through the door. Okay, great. So now I'm in the door. I'm at Chris Williams's live show, and at the end there's a meet and greet.

I'm like, okay, well, no one is ever going to remember the first guy. So I stayed there until 1 a.m. again. It's a Saturday night. I have no reason to be there, you know, like I have no reason. This podcast does not need to be a success, but I just sat there in this chair for till 1 a.m., waiting in this line and going longer and long and long.

And finally, at the very end, I'm the last guy. Okay, now I've got a cookbook with his, you know, like written message for him. So I'm the last guy who runs. He's still on the podcast. You know, it may never even happen, but it's just like you're kind of willing to do the unreasonable. And so, you know, one day they may happen, but it's like, just like, just be there and just realize, again, things are worth doing are hard. And you need to like you need to show value, and value can be done through just fucking people go like, fuck, that was a lot of effort.

Alycia: I forgot all about that story.

Frank: That was, yeah, yeah, yeah, that.

Alycia: Was so crazy. I love that. And like, again, it's paid off, right?

Frank: Well no it hasn't. He's never come on. You know like that's the whole point. It's like no it hasn't. And that's the beautiful part. It's like Sam is like you don't even know that these things are going to pay off. They may never pay off. And that's part of the process.

Alycia: I feel like you'd remember me.

Frank: Maybe you won't. You'll never have it. You won't. But like it's happened. It's worked before, but it's just like. And that's the beautiful part. It's that people get like, oh, no, that didn't work. Or so much effort because like, yeah, putting too much stock on the one thing. Like, you got to you got to be taking those kind of shots on goal at all time. Because at some stage, if that's what you're doing all the time, it will pay off. Maybe not on that one, but somewhere along the line. And that's the that's the key.

Alycia: I literally I saw a clip yesterday and it was like, if this is your goal, show me what's in your calendar today to get you to that goal. And it's like such a cliche piece of advice. You hear it all the time, but it's like, what are those actions that you're doing if you want to be in the top 1%, you wanna interview him. Where's the movement? That question that I have for you? If you had to do a podcast that was not about business, what would it be about?

Frank: I don't feel nearly qualified enough to do it, but something that's on my mind a lot. God, we're going to get deep here. Nice. Once the influential men in my age bracket. None of them are dads. Not one of them, like I don't, I can't think of one that's in my mind that they're talking about topics that are really, really great, um, and whatever. But not one of them isn't a dad. And so I feel like kind of like uniquely positioned there because I just love being a dad and kids are so hard, but they're they're just the best things in the world.

And I feel like I would probably spend more time on there. And I and I often wrestle with that because, you know, we get lots of attention and eyeballs and that kind of stuff. And you're like, oh, I don't really want my kids on my I don't want them to be seen by randoms. But at the same time, I also would like I'd like to show up as a figure to like encourage males in, in my generation to be like, hey, being a dad is best thing in the whole world and like your your, your job should be like, how can I raise incredible kids and like, not enough people slash anybody in my category talks like that.

And I think that's what I.

Alycia: Do, I love that. Have you listened to Hamish Blake's How are they dads, dad?

Frank: Uh, I haven't.

Alycia: Oh, you'll love it.

Frank: Yeah, I'll send it. I've heard good things. I can't pretend that I listened to a lot of that stuff.

Alycia: Yeah, it was when we were driving to Victoria and we just, like, had it on in the car and, like, the stories in there. Yeah, they're so cool. But, like, I love that as an answer. The question that I ask everyone to the podcast is, what is one podcast that's regularly on your rotation and why do you keep coming back?

Frank: I'm so sorry. You don't want to know. Oh. Oh. Good lord. Leisa. No, you shouldn't have asked that.

Alycia: Oh, God. The clip.

Frank: Yeah, this is it. Oh, no, no, no, I'm getting canceled for sure. Um, okay. I have a really weird thing where I can't fall asleep at night unless I'm listening to a podcast. Uh, I really hope mobile phones don't give you brain cancer. I've really, genuinely hope, because I've been doing this for years. Um. And I can't listen to anything about business because it's way too stimulating. And I learned that in the early years, like, I just I could sit up there for 3 hours or 4 hours. Um, so my, like, super guilty pleasure Is American politics, and that comes in like many different forms. I'm probably not going to name names because I'm getting cancer for sure.

Um, I just really it's for some reason that's like intriguing enough, but not too intriguing that I will fall asleep. And so, you know. Insert American political Commentator podcast here.

Alycia: Wow. I did not expect this.

Frank: Yeah. Or a good conspiracy. You know, like, so like, you know, a Joe Rogan alien. Like one of those topics, like he's at the moment is boring a shit. But if there's a topic about aliens, conspiracies or politics, man, I'm listening to that shit at night time every time.

Alycia: And it's so far fetched that it probably is like, it feels like a dream anyway, because you like this stuff. You're like, how can this be real? I love this.

Frank: So.

Alycia: Yeah. Frank, incredible having you on. Where is the best place for people to connect with you?

Frank: Um, well, I don't know.

Alycia: Uh, you can go anywhere, but they can find you.

Frank: Yeah. Insert one of the places here. Instagram's good.

Alycia: Yeah. Cool. Perfect. We'll pop it in the show notes. But thank you so much for coming on.

Frank: My pleasure. Thank you.