What the BEST Creators on Spotify Are Doing with Jordyn Christensen

Transcribed from the episode audio, so you might spot the odd typo.

Jordyn: Out of the 350 million people that have watched the video podcasts on Spotify. 70%. Watch it in the foreground. So that's full screen with their phone on? Not really, is it? 72% of audiences now prefer video over audio only. Okay, good long form video and audio is already hard enough without having to create like custom assets for every platform. To be a sustainable business, you kind of have to be everywhere too. There was 100 million USD paid out to creators and publishers by Spotify. Some American shows made 10,000 USD in their first month. The audiences they built there are like Ride or Die for you in comparison to other platforms.

Alycia: Is there anything else that you're seeing the best creators to do that other podcasts aren't? Jordan Christensen You lead creative partnerships at Spotify and we have so much to cover. Today, I really want to talk to you like the behind the scenes of Spotify use, this is a little mini masterclass for like what people should actually do, but this is not your first foray into podcasting. Tell us where you started.

Jordyn: Yeah. So I'm a media goalie by trade, I would say I started in magazines. I was a beauty rider. I wrote across titles like Marie Claire, Elle, Harper's Bazaar, and I actually feel like media girls have ended up in all different kinds of tech roles, which is so interesting down the line when you actually have a look at that. But Ball Media was where I met my previous co-founder, Lauren Meisner, and we founded a youth media company called Centennial World. And as part of that, we co-hosted, co-produced a podcast called Infinite Scroll, which we did for four years, I think. So that was two hour long episodes a week where we would dissect essentially like creator economy, internet culture, like the biggest viral trends or the biggest thing happening on the internet that week.

So I feel like that really gave me like a great insight to then come into the Spotify role. Because I've been on the podcast side, I've had to grow a show. I know how hard it is, and I also know how heavy lift creating long form content is. And then I would also sell in the brand partnerships across the podcast too. So having that conversation like on the creator level, but then also kind of on the corporate level. So I feel like I've been very full circle ecosystem of podcasting, which is crazy.

Alycia: It's so good and so good for your role as well, because you actually have been in the creative shoes. You understand what we're all going through, especially doing volume content. Like I feel like two a week and I know now it's daily, but like which is just insane.

Jordyn: I thought it was volume content before. Now Lauren is like truly in the trenches actually.

Alycia: I was like, how does this work? But like even back then, doing that and that length of content as well, and coming up with the ideas and staying on top of things, it would have been hectic.

Jordyn: Totally. I think having a co-host really helped and I credit where credit is due. Lauren just lives and breathes into that culture and she is like an encyclopedia. I would refer to her for like internet culture history. Like she would know what Tana mojo did in like 2011 that was relevant to bring up in a random conversation in 2025. Like, she's so brilliant in that respect. So like absolutely. Hats off to her for that. But I do think, like you do get in a rhythm of it all. You know, like we would record batch, like we'd do both episodes at once during the week. Like the first part would be news. The second part would be a deep dive. It was very research heavy, but I kind of loved that because I feel like you've learned and absorbed so much more when you have to have a conversation about it.

So we would try really hard to kind of form our opinions ahead of time, not tell each other, come back together, and then we'd have a discussion and a conversation about it. So I feel like that really lent itself to, um, it was just good for the overall brand because we were like really deep diving. We really had opinions about what we were, um, curating news around, like it was just a great way to do it, I think.

Alycia: Yeah. And we'll get into like, what the actual top performing shows are doing at the moment, but I think even more so, and I've heard this recently as well, with the rise of AI, like what people want is your actual opinion because we can play so much information like any question you have. You can get an answer, but if you're giving an opinion, a take on that research, yeah, everyone's going to be like, oh, and it makes them think and it gives them something to talk about themselves as well.

Jordyn: Completely. I think we're seeing that too, just generally with the rise of the expert influencer, like the concept of what an influencer is, I do think there's an element where we've seen too much about the traditional lifestyle influencer, like people want more now, whether that's like friendship content, and you can see genuine dynamics between people, or you can draw on people's expertise. And that's opinions that you wouldn't find anywhere else or rooms that you don't generally have access to. I think all of those things are landing better now. Like we're so far along in the influencer and creator kind of ecosystem now that that deep diving is kind of what people want a bit more.

Alycia: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we've always tried to do. Like with How Do I Podcast. There are so many podcasters starting out who like can't get in a room with with you, with Spotify, all these amazing other podcasters and to learn from them. Like in the trenches. What did they do? Like how have they built it? And so giving that insights group is so important, which we're going to touch on now. Tell us how are you working with creators within your role.

Jordyn: So my.

Alycia: Role.

Jordyn: Is really interesting. So when I started about two years ago, we didn't really know what video on platform was going to look like in Australia for Spotify. So it was actually such a fascinating role, uh, where I basically had to go in and they were talking about how they wanted somebody that wanted a bit of biz dev experience, which obviously was Centennial was kind of the bread and butter.

But, you know, we were talking to video first creators in a way that like Spotify as a platform, hadn't really engaged with before, like Rogan and call her daddy had video for many years before that. But this was kind of the first time we were having mainstream conversations with creators and making it a bit more like accessible. So that was kind of the beginning of my role, was reaching out to long form video creators saying, hey, have you heard about video on Spotify? Would that be something you would consider? Here's what the opportunity looks like and basically gauging their reaction. There was a lot of education to do. That was kind of June 24th, and then we were one of the first four markets in the world to launch other Spotify partner programs.

So to launch monetization for video content on platform and that launched January 2025. So this first conversation was so interesting because you're having conversations with creators and it's really just a trust game. It's like, please just come and experiment so we can learn. We'll work with you on this. But there wasn't, you know, anything really competitive we could offer besides kind of audience growth and first mover advantage?

Alycia: Yeah.

Jordyn: Of course. And then knowing monetization was coming. So it was US, the UK, the US and Canada, which is really cool because I think in the scheme of platforms, Australia is often like not a top priority.

Alycia: Yeah.

Jordyn: So I am so passionate, having been on the creative side myself, that the platform was really prioritizing Australian creators. It was such a big opportunity to actually be generating revenue from the content that you were creating. So from there, my role has essentially been expanding the video catalog on the platform. So I typically work with independent creators, whether that's independent audio creators are helping them with best practice, getting them to consider video if it's right for their show, it's not right for everyone. But then kind of working with them through that process and then working with net new video creators.

So that's existing long form, uh, that probably lives across other platforms already, and getting them to consider bringing it onto Spotify as well, essentially as a way to grow new audiences, diversify revenue streams and like build deeper fandom and community.

Alycia: How good. Okay, we're going to touch on monetization because everyone always wants to know more about it. They're like, how do I actually make money from this thing that is costing me thousands of dollars, actually. But before we do, talk to me about with those with the data that you've seen, how has podcasting changed over the last few years since we've had that introduction of video?

Jordyn: Yeah, it's so interesting, this question. Like, I really start with it for a minute because I think thinking about, you know, the crux of storytelling and audio. I think there's an element of it that's always been created there. So storytelling is obviously kind of the core of podcasting, and audio is so intimate. But I even think about The Daily by The New York Times. Like, I have a parasocial relationship with Michael barbaro and I don't know anything about him besides the fact that he's the host. So I think that creator led element, like video has just really allowed us to dive deeper into that, into that side of things.

So I think when we look about the way, like youth audiences consume content, it's less about the platform and the content and more about the creator now. So looking at like growing up with Emma Chamberlain. So I watched her vlogs on YouTube. Then I watched her podcast. Like, I don't have a distinction in my mind around what kind of content I'm watching from her. I just watch her as a creator, and I think then going into the podcast side of things and breaking down, like, I loved what Dan said on the previous episode. Like, we don't really refer to them as podcasts anymore. They're more shows just broadly because people have this expectation, especially youth audiences with creators, that they want to know what they're wearing.

They want to know what their bedroom looks like. Like they want all those extra context cues because that's, um, like how they dive deeper into their fandom piece. And that's how creators build community. And it's the parasocial relationship of it all. So I think audio is still super, super important, super powerful. Like it really is still the foundation of Spotify's business. And we'll never move away from that. But I think giving people the option of how they consume and giving creators the option of how they create, I think that move into video is really just like an extension of what we've already seen.

Alycia: Yeah, and we've seen this with every creator that we've worked with. Like one of my favorites is the boys behind Bloody Brilliant Beers. They were one of our very first episodes and the boys record at the Caxton pub. And so it's like this pub in Brisbane. It's so iconic. They have like literally grandma's couch that they're recording on. It's a floral couch, but like it's become their scene and people come to see them and like they see the clips, they know it's them totally. And with the studio like that is something we hammer into anyone who's coming in. We're like, bring your props. Like, I don't want this studio to look like the person who was in here beforehand, because that's again, like how you create that recognizable.

Jordyn: Totally like the visual identity. Like it's how you create those context clues and culture around your brand. Like, those are the things that turn into inside jokes with your community, right? And that you can transition into live shows. And like you said, that means it's recognizable when it comes up on a short form like TikTok feed. I think those things are just they're such exciting opportunities that we didn't have previously. Like from so many standpoints, like discoverability, like brand integration opportunities, deeper fandom, um, deeper fandom, peace, and the opportunity to like, deep dive deeper into engagement with your community.

Like, there's so many benefits that video can bring.

Alycia: Absolutely. Have you seen like, an increase in the number of consumers? Because I know. Like as a whole, we're up to nearly like 50% of Australians consuming a podcast every single week. Have you seen that come across as well?

Jordyn: We have. So the most recent data that I have, which is a little bit old, but 72% of audiences now prefer video over audio only.

Alycia: Okay, good.

Jordyn: And out of the 350 million people that have watched the video podcasts on Spotify, 70% watch it in the foreground. So that's full screen with their phone unlocked. Really? Isn't that such a surprising start?

Alycia: Crazy. Like I consume podcasts when I'm at the gym. When I am driving. Like, I don't have it up on my screen. Yeah. But I think.

Jordyn: It's really.

Alycia: Like.

Jordyn: It's a complimentary experience. So I think, like the way that I watch podcasts now are like starred on my TV in the morning, or I have my little sticky guy, my octo buddy on my mirror when I'm doing my makeup. So I'll be watching therapists while I'm getting ready. Um, and then I'll go to my car and I'll lock my phone. It'll be audio only. Then I'll go back and I'll finish the episode on my phone in my lunch break watching it. So it's really just being able to dip in and out and to have visual cues. So when somebody mentioned something that's worth like calling visual attention to, you have that option. I think that's what's really landing with people.

Alycia: Yeah. And I've seen so many people like you just glance over and they've got like the little bar at the top. They're like multitasking. They're doing something else, but they've still got that tiny little video saying, what's going on, Nick? My husband does that and the doing is like, oh yeah, did you see this? I'm like, no, I listen to it. So it is such a cool experience.

Jordyn: Yeah, it really is.

Alycia: Love that. Okay. Um, are there any types of videos like seeing across all the creators that you've worked with now? Are there any types of videos that are performing better than others?

Jordyn: Um. I think we are still in a relatively early phase of what video podcasting looks like or what video shows broadly expanded kind of means. So I think in some realms, creators that fit more into that traditional, like you can toggle between audio and video is a bit more palatable to, you know, people that aren't used to watching full time. Like, I didn't grow up on YouTube. So Bella Fiore. She has a true crime show called Mystery Mondays. She's one of our faves locally. Uh, I think that kind of content does really well. Like, it's face to camera. She's speaking, but she has kind of visual cues. She has images from the case, kind of flash on screen, and she can call attention to them at different times.

That kind of content does really well. But then on the flip side of that, there's a channel where working with creators called How ridiculous. So they have like 24 million subscribers on YouTube. They're huge. They are so foregrounded, all kind of stunt based creators, like they built the world's biggest ax, and they chopped a Tesla in half on their property art in WA. And that kind of content is also flying on Spotify. So I don't feel like there's really this box of what we would recommend as being best practice. I think that's kind of the cool thing. I feel like we're at an inflection point for podcasting where the industry is kind of aligning on what people want, what users want, creators want, and how that comes together.

So I think it's kind of been a fun period in the meantime, because people are really just down to test and learn and figure out what works, and they know they have to be multi-platform. So it's also kind of how Spotify, from my experience, fits into that multi-platform strategy and how we can kind of best support them on that one pillar that we work on, while knowing that to be a sustainable business, you kind of have to be everywhere too.

Alycia: Yeah, you do, and especially now like it. Just like having that orange audience as well. And we again, we talk about this all the time. Like it's well and good. Have your Instagram, have your TikTok like build your community there. Totally. But have email like just have that base that if something happens anywhere that you can bring them back to you because completely you never know. Like again, podcasts are safer than like an Instagram account or anything like that. You've got your parent RSS feed that's not likely to go away. Yeah, but yeah, just making sure you own that completely.

Jordyn: We always learn, and I used to talk a lot about how like newsletter audiences and RSS feeds are the few things within this ecosystem that you actually have control over, and you own that. If all the algorithms went away tomorrow, you would have these things that could transfer, like be transferred across platforms or you could utilize in another way.

Alycia: Yeah. And like podcasts again, if you can somehow get them to follow you like Spotify does the job for you. You don't have to do anything. It's just like every month, every week. Are this new episodes here? Would you like to listen? Yes. And would you like to recommend which I want to talk about, like how you can grow your show using and leveraging the platform as well?

I think for anyone who is in an audio before we do, if there were anyone who is like in that audio space, if you haven't started video, I think what Bella does and what would be a really good recommendation is thinking about how you can bring your audio audience over, like if you're all of a sudden start doing video and you're not referencing anything that's on the screen, they're just gonna get frustrated.

Like, I have had podcasts I've loved. Yeah. And they're just starting to talk about like graphs that are on the screen. I'm like, guys, I'm driving. I've got no idea. Like, can you explain the graph?

Jordyn: Totally.

Alycia: So with clients again, we'll always say, like, pretend there's someone in the room that literally cannot see. Yeah. And you have to, like, audibly explain what's going on. Yeah. Until you get to a point, like maybe then you are video only and that's a decision.

Jordyn: Totally. I think it depends on kind of your history and context. It depends on your existing audience. It depends on where you want to take the show. Like there are so many factors, I think, for Bella. Like her audience is used to watching her on YouTube, say so. I think for her it was really an education piece of now she's available on these other platforms. It was so interesting seeing the response when she first moved over. And it's in addition to. Right, like I think that's where we're sitting to like publish them on both platforms at the same time. We where creators have typically been concerned about cannibalization. Anecdotally, it's had the opposite effect.

So Bella has actually seen a bump across all of her platforms as a result of doing so well on Spotify, which is so cool to see. but it does an education piece that she had to do. And the comments were like, wow, I'm so excited now that I can listen to this at the gym, or I can listen to this when I'm driving and I can switch between.

So I think for her, it kind of she was doing the reverse. Whereas I think if you're audio first, it's definitely this process of kind of like letting people know that there are now visual cues. But fundamentally, if it's an audio show and that's what people come to you and expect from you, then leaning into that and maybe it's a slower burn ramping up to the video side.

Like I think in that respect, video should always be additive. Yeah, like add to the experience, give people more options without taking away from the original reason that they liked your content in the first place.

Alycia: Absolutely. Let's talk about Bella and other shows that are doing well. What do you think has been one of those factors that have driven huge growth to anyone who's kind of blown up on Spotify? Oh, I.

Jordyn: Mean, I wish I had a silver bullet for you, I do. I mean, the video. Piece for us and I think this is one of the broader benefits of video in general is discoverability. Like podcasts have always had a discoverability issue. Like that's traditionally been one of the hardest parts of creating in this format. So I think video is really exciting because it's really changed the game for a lot of creators.

Like whether that is the tools that we have on Spotify versus off platform opportunity to organically come across a new show via short form content. But on Spotify itself, we have like a range of new factors armor features now. So we have clips, which is like a short form 92nd vertical video that you can link to each long form episode. So you can either upload that during the uploading process when you upload the episode, or you can do it retroactively. So say you have a bunch across a different like bunch of clips running across different platforms. If one performs really well, you can sub that out, and that's then the section that you have running on Spotify.

So that's been really great. And we kind of have a discovery feed where those short film clips run, but that is also always with the intention of driving back to long form consumption. We never want it to be like its own standalone kind of feed. That's not what Spotify is for. Ah, but we also have custom thumbnails or cover art. Like, I know you're doing all these things.

Alycia: Yes, of course, it looks so much better. And it's just like, you know, you get that benefit of YouTube. We know that the thumbnail on YouTube is such a huge piece of why someone will actually click through. So the fact that Spotify have that now, it's amazing.

Jordyn: Well, and it's meant to be low lift, right. Like you're already creating all these assets for other channels like long form video and audio is already hard enough without having to create like custom assets for every platform. So it's like you can use them across multiple platforms, like make them work as hard for you as possible. The comment section is a big one, like making sure that you're engaging with your audiences there, like that stuff that builds community in a really meaningful way. Um, what are the poles? Of course, is an extension of that. Um, what other platform features do we have? And then I would say another kind of big learning.

As we lean further into video, on our side is optimizing the first like 60s of your show on platform. Because if the show gets served as like a home banner, the first 60s will play automatically. So I think like whether that's kind of a little sizzle reel of the most interesting tidbits of the conversation or even just like explaining who you are and what you do, I think there's a massive opportunity there to be like grabbing new audiences and then all the off platform opportunities to like that still stands. I think traditionally when you think about audio podcasting, it's been like a word of mouth thing or it's been an off platform thing, and I think the off platform still stands, but now you are creating that to live across so many platforms anyway.

So I think it's almost easier in that respect.

Alycia: Yeah, I've seen the girls from shameless, they've just had a video and they've just made a huge change to their format where they've got like this hook that grabs you in and they'll talk about like some random topic at the start. It is so good because it's like it hooks you and you're like, what are they talking about? Who are these girls? Like, yeah, what is this?

Jordyn: And it really gives you this like insight into who they are and what they're about. And I think that that's the whole crux of podcasting is people are coming back to your show. There's the educational element, obviously, or the entertainment element, but at the end of the day, like people have a parasocial relationship with the host, they like the way that you interview or they like the way that you speak to each other or the inside jokes that you have.

So I think what shameless does is so, um, brilliant because it's just this tiny little snapshot of their dynamic and what they talk about in a way that like, gives people like a full picture of what their content is about.

Alycia: Let's talk about the question everyone wanted me to ask the charts. Yes. What is the secret to landing on the charts on Spotify?

Jordyn: Oh my gosh, I actually don't know how helpful I've been in this respect. I mean, one of the biggest things that we track or is valuable in regards to monetization is consumption hours. So I think that's a big one. And then I think the trending charts and the trending episodes are probably the thing to pay the most attention to, because I think when we think about like, how local talent fits into, you know, global listenership and all the amazing global shows that are out there, the top shows aren't often a reflection of like Australian shows and what people are actually listening to.

So I don't have anything to share on the actual like, calculations and how that happens, unfortunately. But I will say trending shows and top episodes are a really good indication of whether the show was doing well versus the overall top shows.

Alycia: Is there anything creators can do to push themselves to be featured or on those trending charts?

Jordyn: I think just make sure that your. Categories in the back end are actually aligned to the kind of content that you're creating. I think that's probably one of the things that we see most often is shows a mis categorized. So they categorize it at the beginning, and then five years later, the show has gone down a completely different path and the categorization hasn't been updated. So I think that's probably a good tip is just to make sure that your category reflects what the show is actually about, because those category charts are also probably where there's the most opportunity for local shows to surface.

Alycia: Yeah, we've seen that. We've taken over shows and they've been like business. Like that's the only category that they've put in there. I'm like, no, no, no, hold up. Like there is management, there's entrepreneurship. There's all these different aspects and like categories within business. Totally. And if you niche down like we know entrepreneurship is such a huge category that's like kind of untapped a little bit like from what we've seen. And so if you're niching down to one of those, then like you have less competition instead of all the business podcasts in a circle.

Jordyn: And like we will also say, we'll always say that podcasting go an inch wide, a mile deep. Like podcasting is where you can find like the weirdest interests that you think you could possibly have. You can find a community and like an amazing show around that. So I think when people are thinking about like, what's the right category or move for them in podcasting, it's like lean into what you know and what you care about.

Like you're never going to be everything to everyone, so you might as well be like, have a diehard audience like cult. The audience around this like one incredibly niche thing that you are, like, extremely well qualified to talk about or, you know, your corner of the internet that's, you know, there's some shows about like nautical history specifically.

Alycia: Yeah, yeah.

Jordyn: But it's.

Alycia: Fascinating.

Jordyn: They have audiences. So like I think that's a really great point is like lean into the things, lean into the natures, the specificities, like the things that you can speak to that nobody else can because like people are looking for that.

Alycia: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So what about if a creator has had a show for a little while? They've got our community, but they're really wanting to focus on bringing in organic new growth. What are some of the things they can do?

Jordyn: I think one of the most underutilized, uh, strategies is like cross-promotion with other shows. Like, I think when you look at, uh, the early days of YouTube, you look at David Dobrik vlog, Vlog Squad or James Charles's sister squad. Like, they were so successful because they all did videos on each other's channels. Like there was a dynamic there. I think that sharing audiences amongst people that already consume podcasts and already on platform is where you're kind of going to get your stickiest new audiences. So we have a program that we run called mashups, where shows can opt in, and then our data team pulls kind of cross audiences for these shows and across everyone else that's opted in.

And then we can kind of recommend shows who have opted in that you can kind of work with on either, like guesting on each other's shows or trailer swaps or feed drops, like thinking about unique ways like that, where you can be working together and collaboratively to expand your audience. Because I think, like short form content has to land so many times before it actually converts to long form consumption.

And it's so amazing that we have that. And that's something that five years ago we didn't have in the same way.

Alycia: That little audiogram waves and like text on screen actually.

Jordyn: Yeah. Like that was how did we ever find any listeners?

Alycia: No idea.

Jordyn: Like the shameless strategy of sticking like QR codes and posters on the back of like, university students doors? I'm like, that's the shit that we had to do for real. Um, so I think now, yeah, really leaning into the people that are already listening to podcasts is a good place to start. And just tapping into your own network. To be fair, that's what I'm doing a lot at. Spotify is really trying to build out creative community, because I think there's like a really big gap there for spaces where creators can, like, share challenges, share wins, strategies that are working for them, like learn from each other in ways that like, we're not the ones on the ground creating podcasts and navigating growth per se.

So if we can get creators in the same room so they can talk about that and learn from each other, I think that that's like the best opportunity that they can have. So we're definitely trying to do more of that. And we've seen some amazing collaborations kind of come off the back of just getting everyone in the room together. Um, they guest on each other's shows. They like introduce each other to like brand partners. Stuff like that I think is like the most valuable at the end of the day.

Alycia: Okay. We need to talk about this off mic, but the match up whereabouts on the hang on is it mash ups? Is that what it's called? Okay. Yeah. All right. So the mash ups whereabouts is this? Like, do you have to host on on Spotify to be able to get access to this? Yeah.

Jordyn: So this is something that we run like this is an internal program. So typically any creators that are hosted on Spotify for creators or megaphone, that's something that we work with them on. And then we can send the link to the form to sign up. And then that goes to our data team. And it's a bit of a manual process at the moment, to be honest. Like it is something that we're looking to streamline and expand because like I said, I think it's such a valuable tool, but it is quite early days of us doing that. So it is like manual. Like I would literally just send you a link.

Alycia: It's like, hi everyone. Jordan and I like I mean, one at a time please. But okay, I love that. And I think all of the tools that you've mentioned, there will be people that have never seen this before. You don't have to host on Spotify to have access to all of them. Know if you don't have a Spotify for creators account. Like, definitely recommend making one of those, because the insights that you guys have, like we have had clients on gods like Buzz Sprout, love, it was great. It was where I started. But the insights on that and the analytics are terrible. Yeah. If you go to Spotify and Apple as well and log in directly, you get access to so much more insights and access to these really cool tools.

You can start conversations, you can chat back to them, even just like toggling on the transcripts, like completely. There's so much in there now.

Jordyn: Yeah, like chapters, thumbnail scrubbing. Like there's so many features that you have access to once you dive into that back end. We also have a Spotify for creators app, which means you can essentially like reply to comments on the go, like, like, and engage with content. See how your content is tracking. You can get notifications to switch on when you hit charts or hit milestones of listener numbers. So I think all those things, like especially because we know that everyone's on so many platforms and processes like have to be streamlined. So it's just an easy way to kind of get like a snapshot of how your content is performing on Spotify, uh, while you're navigating all these other platforms too.

Alycia: Amazing. Is there anything else that you're seeing the best creators do that other podcasts aren't?

Jordyn: Um. I would say the best creators. That I work with are the ones that know it's a long game. So I think especially when creators are thinking short form, transitioning to long form, thinking about what the future of their career looks like. And like I said, I do think long form and RSS feed, like there are elements there that they're kind of future proofing in a way, right?

Like you're building something that you own, but they expect this overnight virality. And I think navigating that expectation that that's not necessarily the case. It's a slow burn, like some of the bigger shows in the world have been showing up every week for an hour. Exactly. When they say they're going to for their audience for years and years before, they kind of have their big break. And I know that's not necessarily what everyone wants to hear, but I think that's the reality. And I think showing up for your audience on time when you say you're going to because they're showing up for you and they're listening to you for an hour every week and they're choosing you, it hasn't just been fed to them, but I think it pays off tenfold because the value of a podcast listener or like a long form video audience member is like, they're your biggest fans.

And we like to say Spotify is where your biggest fans live, like they're coming back and they're building you into their daily and weekly routines, like they're coming back over and over again. So I think the best shows that I work with are the ones that like, understand that responsibility in some respects, and that you also need to have something to say, and you need to be able to offer value in some respect.

Like whether that's like educational entertainment, like expertise, whatever that is. Know what your point of difference is and like how you're going to bring that to life every week. And I think short form to long form is so different because like sitting down for an hour or 20 minutes, 30 minutes even. That's hard. Yeah, you have to plan and be organized and there's editing involved and all of that. But like I do think at the end of the day, it is worth so much. The audiences that you build there are like ride or die for you in comparison to other platforms.

Alycia: And the personal brand that you get to build as well, like that. Trust that rapport to do that through short form, like you're looking at like 140 clips to just get one episode's like the same duration of an episode. So it is such a powerful tool to, like, actually connect with people. Yeah, I love that. And I think, again, that pace around consistency, like it's never been something I've even considered to not go live at that time because I'm such an avid podcast listener myself.

But when I was again, like looking through some stats on the industry and like where it's all sitting at the moment, that people who listen to podcasts are listening to. 8.3 episodes a week. Yeah, that's a lot of it is. But like my routine on Tuesday, I've got my podcast that I listen to. If you're not there on Tuesday like one, I will be devastated. But I'm gonna find something else.

Jordyn: Totally, totally. So like it is. It's so routine based. Yeah. And that's where I feel like, I mean, the Spotify experience kind of having everything in one place. But like music, building podcasts, building audiobooks, like those are the people that are spending the most time on the platform are like podcast listeners and building those different layers of the experience. So I think that it really just speaks to how deep the parasocial relationship is and the trust that audiences have with these long form creators.

Alycia: Love this. Amazing. This is so good, by the way. This is so, so, so good. Now, I know there will be people who have clicked on this, and all they want to hear about is how to make money. So Spotify incredible platform. We've obviously had Spotify Originals. We're a huge part of strategy for a long time. Yeah, there is now, as you mentioned before, different ways that you can make money through the Spotify network that I don't think people would even know exists.

So can you tell me? How do we make money on Spotify?

Jordyn: For sure. So we're a small team and everyone's like, how long has this been available for? I'm like, we're doing our best. But it's like every meeting we have like 1 to 1. It just takes time. So yeah, yeah, it's really exciting. What I mentioned earlier about Spotify is kind of monetization opportunity and that is the Spotify Partner program. So it's honestly really similar to like a YouTube AdSense or YouTube partner program model. But for Spotify, if you're publishing video on platform, um, and you're opted in. So there are minimum eligibility requirements. But if you're doing both those things and are essentially set up to earn, then for Spotify free users and anyone listening off platform.

So I also think there maybe is a misconception that if you're hosting on Spotify for creators, it's exclusive and it's not. Spotify is essentially just a hosting platform the same as anything else. So it allows you to publish your video to Spotify and then distributes your audio everywhere else without having to split the file like it does that for you automatically, which I think is really cool.

But if you're publishing video on platform, you're opted into the partner program. It essentially means for anyone listening on Spotify, free or off platform, they will be served ads. So you get to choose where the ad mark is set, how many you want to run in an episode. You can include or exclude any ad categories. So say you had a long term partnership with L'Oreal or you could exclude any competing categories.

Alycia: Essentially, no. Like you don't want gambling or something you can blacklist.

Jordyn: Exactly. So that's a 5050 rep share. But then on the Spotify Premium side, it's an ad free experience for Spotify Premium users. But then the creator gets paid out based on consumption hours. So you can essentially still earn. But it's a great experience for users because they're not being like, slammed with ads 24 over seven. So I think this is beneficial for like a few different reasons, is like the ad load for podcasts especially like we're seeing increase exponentially. So I think the opportunity then to bake in any partnerships across all of your platforms that can still exist within your file. Spotify Premium experience means that, like there won't be any dynamic ads run, so your baked in ad will have like more legs, it'll be less saturated.

And then we've also just launched a sponsorship tool, which is really cool, which essentially allows you to drop in like a video host, read ad into the file retroactively. So that essentially exists as if it's a baked in ad, but you can remove edit archive, um, without like kind of disrupting the episode.

Alycia: Clever. Yeah. So say I've got like a partnership with an existing brand, but we're only doing like, say 20,000 impressions. I can toggle that on, put that in. Still, this has nothing to do with Spotify. This is a partnership that I would have done regardless. Yeah, but it's a dynamic add in that once I've hit those 20,000 impressions, I could turn it off, swap it with my new one.

Jordyn: Exactly.

Alycia: Okay, cool. That's a big advantage.

Jordyn: It's really is. And it's new. And I think that it's something that our creators like. Definitely like have wanted and needed. And just like that, flexibility and monetizing in ways that work for them. So even if that runs like you have a baked in art and then you run a sponsorship like complementary to it just gives people more freedom of ways that kind of they can work with brands that fit into their like existing content strategy.

So essentially it allows you to earn ad revenue, premium video revenue, and then sponsorship or direct sales all from a single piece of content. So I feel like the partner program, we also understand like those three revenue streams, but then you're also earning YouTube partner program money, and then you're also selling in partnerships across your TikTok platform and all your short form and your entire multi-platform presence.

So I think it just opens up a lot of opportunities for how creators can earn.

Alycia: Yeah, cool. Okay. And it's not restricting like something we always talk about. It's not necessarily toggling on ads because the CPM is usually lower compared to like going in and selling like this brand deal that has like a social activation and like maybe you've got a product in there, but you can still do that. And then this is just bonus on top. Exactly.

Jordyn: Okay. Content you're already creating right?

Alycia: And does it have like a set CPM. Or does that vary depending on where you are.

Jordyn: Yeah. So the RPM will be a combination of ad revenue premium video revenue. And you'll just get that paid out at the end of every month. But again that changes on based on who's watching, where they're watching from, how long your episodes are like a bunch of different factors. So yeah, that's a little bit, um, hard to say. Creator to creator. What that looks like.

Alycia: Awesome. And what sort of revenue are you seeing people earn from this?

Jordyn: Oh, we're seeing so in the first quarter of the partner program launching, there was 100 million USD paid out to creators and publishers by Spotify. We're seeing some shows, like some American shows are kind of funny games. Casts made 10,000 USD in their first month of the partner program, launching and having video on platform. We're seeing some of our top earners locally like well, well exceeding that. So it's you know, it's incremental revenue. I wouldn't expect anyone to. Straight off the bat be making like $50,000. But I do think like as the show grows and your audience grows, like you can be growing revenue alongside that.

And people are making significant money for sure.

Alycia: And what about like, can small creators still make money from this?

Jordyn: Yeah, 100%. I think it's it's complementary to like it's really just helping them diversify revenue streams across platforms. So not all your eggs are in one basket. So I think smaller creators are definitely seeing like significant money coming in. But it's in combination with other things that, you know, is really helping sustain that business.

Alycia: And do you see this like a number of ads that kind of like I know for me personally as a listener, some shows I'll listen to, especially us shows now and there's like six ads back to back, like I'm hitting Skip over and over again. Totally. If I'm driving or I'm just listening to them, if I'm not near a skip button, which drives me even more time sometimes.

But like, is there a sweet spot there?

Jordyn: I mean, to qualify for premium video revenue, you need to have at least one AD marker dropped in. But I also, you know, even some meditation creators that we work with. The ad revenue side isn't super important for them. Like that's not something that's it's really important actually to not disrupt that listening experience. So they'll just put one ad marker in at the beginning or one ad marker in the end, and then premium video revenue ends up being their main revenue driver. So I think you can completely like customize. It can either be fully automatic. And we have tools that are based on our learnings from originals of like dropping in ads during like speaker changes or topic changes in ways that like don't disrupt the conversation.

Uh, or it can like be completely customizable. Um, I think it's totally up to your audience and what they're, you know, used to and kind of willing to, um, not put up with, but like, what are they willing to listen to for you? Because in my experience as a podcaster and as a listener, I guess to like podcasting is one of those places where I feel like audiences are actually okay with listening to ads sometimes, because you're putting so much effort into bringing them great content for free every week.

So there's an alignment with those brands that are supporting you because, like, they're helping their favorite creators put this content out. So I think, like there is a sweet spot in that. Like, you can have advertisers and your audience like half the time excited for you because it means that people are recognizing the work that you're doing and they're recognizing the community that you've built, like. I remember when Lauren and I got some of our first podcast advertisers on board. The comments are like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for like, helping our favorite show. Like keep going. Basically. So yeah, I do think there is a sweet spot there where people are happy to support brands that support you, but the upload is increasing exponentially.

So there's also a balance where you're like, okay, no, we actually want to hear our like.

Alycia: Come.

Jordyn: Back podcast. Talk to us now.

Alycia: You can say that like the level of analytics you can see, like if that consumption rate has a dip there okay, maybe we've put one too many. Totally roll it back.

Jordyn: And it looks different for every show, right? Like, I do think there's a lot of testing and learning and we would never the creator knows better than us in so many circumstances. Like we never want to prescribe like black or white. Here's the best practice in some respects, because it looks different for every creator, in every audience.

Alycia: Yeah, I haven't looked for a little while, but last time I had a look, there was 81% of people actually listened to ads. Which is why, like, I know myself. Like there will be times that I just like, I can't be bothered finding my phone, so I do just listen. Yeah. And something that I think is completely underutilized and, and I always personally listen to it and other people I've spoken to are the same is the ad that goes at the end of your episode, because when the episode ends, it takes you a minute to go find your next show.

Cue it up, do whatever. And so I always listen to that, and I've actually done some really cool product.

Jordyn: Completely, and I'm thrilled to put it in a code for my favorite show because I'm like, yeah, I want them to get affiliate revenue from this.

Alycia: And I want the discount. So thank you very much. I love this. So good. Okay, perfect. So you have in your own platform done some incredible things. You've spoken for Pinterest. You've got these amazing partnerships that you've created and like part of this massive podcast that you've grown yourself as well. If someone was starting out again now you've mentioned consistency is a huge thing that they need to do. Is there anything else that you think is important when they're like planning that show and starting their podcast journey? Oh.

Jordyn: I mean video to to be the course. But I do think one of the biggest misconceptions, which is kind of in a roundabout way, answering a question that I don't think everyone needs, like a huge studio tech investment to get started. Like, I think there's value in like some of our top creators sit on their bedroom floor with a mini mic. So I think there is this misconception that you need to have this huge investment to even get started and for people to take you seriously, but I think there's value in like bringing people on that journey with you. So when you do level up to the beautiful studio and the great cameras, people will be like, I listen to her when she was on her bedroom floor.

I'm an OG. I've been here the whole time. Like, I think the biggest piece of advice that I would give people just starting is to start like, don't overthink it. Like, it doesn't matter how much you plan and prepare for your first episode, you're still going to look back in ten episodes time and kind of be embarrassed of what you put out or 100 episodes time, and still be kind of embarrassed of what you put out.

Like, I think it's really interesting. 30% of consumption from the top 100 active shows come from episodes older than eight weeks. So I think there's such a staying power and like long term evergreen discoverability in podcasting. But I think every episode you put out is just like layering up and building that foundation and like bringing your audience on the journey with you. So I feel like my biggest piece of advice would be like, just get started. You only learn by doing, and especially with long form conversation. I don't think there's any way to like, really be prepared to just like talk to camera for know, you know, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, an hour. Like, I think that just takes like, it's a muscle you have to train and flex.

Um, yeah. And don't overthink the tech either. Just just get in there.

Alycia: Yeah. You get so much better. Like, I it was a big break in between. But this is my third podcast and I like I produced podcasts for a living. Like you think that I would know what I'm doing. I go back to my first episode and I like, oh my God, can we please delete this?

Jordyn: Like totally.

Alycia: So bad. But you don't know until you get the reps. And that's content creation. Anything like the way we consume changes so much like literally six months, the way we consume. Yeah, is so different now.

Jordyn: And like our features at Spotify are changing all the time. You know, when leveling up to be what creators want. So you just have to kind of adapt. And I think that's really natural for a lot of content creators, like video first creators, like they used to algorithms changing platforms, launching, shutting down. Like I think there is this level of agility that they have kind of had to operate within their whole careers or whatever that journeys looked like for them, whereas podcasting has kind of existed in this traditional format for quite a long time. So I feel like that's why it feels like we're kind of at this inflection point where everything is kind of being rolled into one for the first time, and that's it's scary for, you know, audio purists and traditionalists, but it's also really exciting in different ways because there's so much new opportunity opening up.

Alycia: And you never know, going back to like when you just said that people listen to a lot of the back catalog. You don't know when that's going to happen. Like, we had a client and one episode just popped off like someone posted it on LinkedIn. They had a massive following, but what happened was people went to listen to that episode, and then they went and listened to ten others, and then they subscribed to the show.

They were so excited and they kept coming back. Week on week, you just don't know. And it's like that little meme of like, the guy panning for gold. You just never know when you're going to hit it. But if you just keep going, totally like you might just be this far away. And that has completely changed that show. Like it was just like one minute.

Jordyn: And one of the creators I work with, Ainsley Harvey, she has a show called Hot History, which is incredible. Recommend everyone go and listen to that. But she. I was looking at her comments recently because we're working with her on some other stuff, and all the comments are like, I've listened to every back catalog episode waiting for your new episode to drop. Like, there are people that do that and they just want more and more and more of you, which I think is why video is also so powerful. Like they get to know you and like your life and you're like, cuz and everything like it gives them such deeper insight into who you are, because that's the kind of fans that you get on podcasting.

Alycia: Yeah, like Tony and Ryan. I remember when I spoke to Ryan, who was telling us about this person that literally went back to the start because that was the way that their brain worked. And you know, how many episodes they had. Totally. They went back to the start. They had to listen to everything and they're like, message them. I'm like, oh, I loved this bit. You've just fallen pregnant. And like, the baby is like three years old now. It was so funny.

Jordyn: So Tony and Ryan coded to have that happen to oh.

Alycia: It was so good. And it was like, that is just beautiful. There's audiences like that, but you hear that with all the big shows like life and kind of had similar stories, like there are people that love that. So if you have all this content, yeah, it's just more opportunity to build that connection on that. Is there anything that you've seen work really well to do two things. Either get people to comment or subscribe to the show or follow.

Jordyn: Yeah, and this is from a podcaster perspective, not from a Spotify perspective, but Lauren and I used to read reviews at the top of each episode. So if somebody left us a review from the following week, we would read that out. And I think that actually worked wonders in engaging our audience. So obviously you ask everyone rate review and subscribe, rate review, follow the show like all the things.

But I think that actual like reading out their name, reading out their words. I've seen lots of creative iterations of that, like people sending in voice notes and having them play in the episode like it's not right for every show. But I think looking at ways to bring your audience like into the actual content is so powerful. Like, people feel so recognized by that. And then even things like sharing stories on social, like replying to comments, like replying to comments encourages more comments because it feels like there's this closeness with you, right? So I think there's lots of ways that you can kind of integrate your community into the content that you're already creating, which it just has, like such a powerful knock on effect.

Like one of, um, my friends, Ariel, who you've had on the pod, uh, process the podcast, she had another girlfriend, Brooke, on recently about building community. And it was such a fascinating episode because Brooke talks a lot about how you build community for the first 20 people. You do everything for those first 20 people, and then everything after that is organic because, like, you're just so focused on giving those first 20 the best possible experience and bringing them on the journey with you and listening to them and engaging with them.

And that just has the biggest like ongoing ripple effect. So I would say the same for podcasting, like treat your first 20 listeners like they're your family in some respects, right? And then they do the work for you.

Alycia: Yeah. Like they'll tell people they'll recommend and like it is almost contagious. Like we've noticed anytime you put does two things. If you share it on your story, like some feedback that you've gotten from someone about an episode. It either encourages people to send more because they're like, oh, I love that too. I should tell you that. I love that, like they'll reply to this story and they'll do that, or they'll be like, oh, I saw that last week. I was kind of interested. This person said, it's really good. I'm gonna go and listen. So it like creates that momentum there.

Jordyn: 100%.

Alycia: Yeah. Really clever. Okay. I've seen a lot of shows though, over the last couple of years as they have grown and become really, really big. This is a really key point in community. They've become really big and they've kind of lost what made them so good in the first place. Like they've forgotten about the community. Yeah, that has got there. I don't even know. Like, I think it's just something that you have to bring to the front of your mind. But is there anything like that you've seen people do to keep that even as they scale? Because it constantly impossible to reply to all the 100%?

Jordyn: I think that's a really, really interesting question. I mean, what we're trying to do, and by no means like the biggest podcast in the world like to be able to compare to that, but we've launched a discord channel as a way to kind of share news with creators. Um, like new feature updates. Like, people can ask questions of each other en masse, and it's not like or having to be that one on one conversation.

So I think that's a good way to do it. I mean, WhatsApp is obviously in its moment at the moment for communities like, I think WhatsApp is such a powerful tool to be connecting with people and make them feel like they have that closeness. But it is like that is really hard. I don't I don't know if I have any solutions to like scaling up. I mean, if you reach a point like I think having people that manage community, like community managers, are becoming increasingly important when you're building content based businesses, um, to support you, because that is going to be the pillar that is so crucial to the continued success of your show if you reach a certain point.

So yeah, I would say, um, like looking towards experts to manage that side, because I do think letting go of that when you've built it organically is really sad. But I also understand there is this point where it becomes unmanageable.

Alycia: Yeah, but it's also the thing that's going to feel more growth, like if you invest in that. I think that's a really great piece of advice, because the more you put into that community, the more you're going to get, the more you get, like, you don't have a show without a community, like there's no one that's going to buy merch, there's no one that's going to want to do all of this stuff, like completely.

And it's such a powerful asset that like, no matter how much AI you get, it's the one thing that it's never going to take away.

Jordyn: Yeah, completely. I mean, I think everyone wants to go on to it at the moment. Like everyone wants to do a live show. And I think that's amazing. And that's something that we are really trying to figure out how we can support. Because like that online to offline experience is so important for, you know, fostering that community and having that real life connection. But that can look different to like a big, noisy live show, you know, like, obviously that's the thing that everyone wants. That's like the North star of being like, I've made it in podcasting is selling out, um, a tour. But I went to a creator event recently with Alison Rice. She has offline the podcast and she had this event.

It's called The Thinking Room and she basically invited, I think it was maybe 20 or 30 of us and there were prompts. So we all broke into small groups and the prompt was around, um, whether or not the algorithm is replacing our taste or if it's revealing that we never had any. And it's like, obviously such a loaded question, but it was we just went in circles and circles and circles for like 40 minutes within our little group.

Then we presented back to the bigger group, and it was just the most fascinating conversation with people from all different backgrounds. It was really intimate and curated and small, and I think like that really recently opened my mind and my eyes to like different ways you can engage with your community in real life that don't have to be like this big, rowdy live show. Like, that's amazing. But it's also not right for every show. And it's also like, if that's your benchmark, you might never get there because it's so hard to move something like, you know, tickets on a Thursday night, get people to travel interstate or XYZ ads. So yeah. I think Allison's example was just really, really unique.

And I think it's such a cool example of ways you can think outside the box of IRL engagement.

Alycia: I'll pop two episodes in the show notes. One I already mentioned is The Blood of Rome Bears, because they talk about bringing their community into it. The other one is one that we've just released with Jesse Marshall, because we spoke all about events and like, not big, massive events, but those little dinners as well and little opportunities for community to come together like a walk. Yeah. Like, yes.

Jordyn: There's been so many creators I've been chatting to that like that's how they get started. They're like health and wellness shows and they do like Hot Girl walk with some of their listeners. And then that builds and builds. And now they're doing that across multiple cities. Like, that's so freaking cool.

Alycia: It is so cool. And like, we've got clients that are do corporate podcasts and they're like, no, they're all going to a conference. Let's do dinner after conference. Like so smart. Like just opportunities to bring people who you already know are like minded together to let them build their content.

Jordyn: Completely and like letting that community build without you being in the center of it. And that's a really hard thing to do organically. But I think that's what the best communities have in common is that you're basically just this, uh, conduit to connect like minded people so they can build relationships, like, separate to you. Like, you can always bring them back and you keep building that community. But, like, if you introduce these two people and they become best friends, I feel like that's the biggest marker of success, that you've tapped into something.

Alycia: So special and like something that is so hard to do usually, and you just have this platform that makes it so easy, so completely untapped. Okay, I have some questions to finish off with you. Just some fun little rapid fire ones. If you could only listen to one genre of podcast for the rest of your life, what would it be? Oh.

Jordyn: I'm such a like sicko for news content. Like, I'll listen to the daily. I'll listen to pivot like, every single day. Um, so it would be that I don't know how great my mental health would be at the end of that, but actually. Sometimes I feel like in my life I do need a balance. But like if I only listen to one thing a day, it'll be pivot.

Yeah. Um, but then I'll balance that cheating on your question with, like, giggly squad, like something comedic and a lot and like, brain rot in the best way.

Alycia: Love that. Good. What podcast do you think's going to be the next big thing?

Jordyn: Oh, um, I've already mentioned, but hot history is amazing. Like, Ainsley is so thoroughly researched for everything she puts out, she's doing this series with the background to the Odyssey in the lead up to the Odyssey movie coming out. So she's done deep dives on like the Greek Gods and the Trojan War, but she does it in a way that is so fun and accessible, and she's copped a lot for not looking or feeling like a traditional historian.

Like she started on TikTok and realized, wow, this has legs people love. This is just making history fun and accessible. And she has just come leaps and bounds like the podcast is doing so well. And I just I'm so like proud of the work she's doing in the audience. It's finding it's like fantastic.

Alycia: That is amazing. I'm excited. We will definitely add that to us as well. What if if you were starting a podcast yourself again, what is the most important thing that you would focus on? You've answered variations of this.

Jordyn: Hmm. I mean, I feel like now I would just love to do an interview show. Like, I would just love to use it as an excuse to pick the brains of all the people that I think are brilliant.

Alycia: Yes.

Jordyn: And I do that for things.

Alycia: Yeah.

Jordyn: But obviously, like if you're starting from scratch, that's something that you like have to build up to is like, you need to have proof of concept before you go and ask your dream guest. In some respects, actually, I would say like shooting your shot if that is something you want to do. Like I've damned Real Housewives of New York and they've just replied to me and been like, yeah, let's get a coffee.

Alycia: Oh God, I love.

Jordyn: So like, I just, you know.

Alycia: Go, go love I know.

Jordyn: Yeah. You just like, dive straight in. So yeah, I would just focus on, I suppose, um, finding your voice, like figuring out what you can speak to that nobody else can. And you need to have a plan in as far as, like, know what your next four weeks of content is going to look like. Know what your next eight weeks of content might look like. Like, just to know that you have enough in the bank that that is the path that you should follow. Because I think and Dan mentioned this on his episode, like a lot of people get three episodes in and they're like, oh, hey, this is harder than I thought. And be like, I don't know if I have enough to continue on this, like content direction that I've been going down.

So I think if you have those things fleshed out, like a lot of the rest of it will take care of itself.

Alycia: Yeah, I think like realistically, if you can't come up with 20 different topic ideas, like maybe you're looking at the wrong thing. Yeah, because it should be easy.

Jordyn: Maybe pick short form. Yeah. You know, or something like even start with short form, start face to camera, get ready with me videos and flesh it out. See how the idea lands like, see if you're comfortable talking about that. Like in an ongoing capacity, then you can bring it over to long form. Like, I think there's lots of ways you can kind of test and try now without having to take the huge leap of like announcing something like a podcast.

Alycia: Yeah, in short form, such a good proof of concept. Like, are people interested in this? Are they engaging with you? And like, such a good way to build that community to completely? What's the one type of show you wish someone would create?

Jordyn: Oh my gosh. Um, I'm an F1 goalie in my heart and we're starting to see a bit more of it now, but I wish there were more like women led F1 podcasts and F1 content. I think Morgan Riddle is a really interesting example. She, um, kind of popularized men's tennis in a way. She was one of the girlfriends on tour at the time. I think they've broken up since, but she's really shed this light on female fandom in sport and how it's not really catered for. And like, it's a completely under tapped market just from a, um, like revenue perspective from a capitalist perspective. Like, there's not merch made for women in ways that there could be like like men own one Knicks jersey and they'll wear that for 30 years.

Like women that are Knicks fans will probably buy five different pieces of merch and build that into their, like, different outfits. So I think more, um, Sasso and Love and DeBarge are also amazing at this. But yeah, more female women led sports content. I think without.

Alycia: That to say, genius, let's do more. Amazing question that we ask everyone to the podcast and you have mentioned a couple, but what is one podcast that you always come back to and why is it on your rotation?

Jordyn: Uh, pivot with Scott Galloway and Kara swisher. I think Kara is kind of the OG tech journalist, and I started as a journalist like in magazine. So I just have so much respect for the reputation she's built and the the types of conversations she has with such influential people. Like, I love how she's just not afraid to, like, call a spade a spade like she says the most.

Like out of pocket shit on stage or in interviews or to the face of the person she's interviewing. And I love that. I think her and Scott are just their dynamic. At the end of the day, and I mentioned this in the notes, like, I think the through line for me, for the shows that I love is like the dynamic between co-hosts and people that just have really good rapport between them can bounce off each other, and Scott and Kyra do that so well, but they're also like the smartest people ever.

So I think that's kind of my dream combo is I'm learning, but I'm entertained.

Alycia: Yes. And that is the key to any good show. Yeah, I've definitely found that completely. This has been absolutely incredible. Where is the best place for people to connect with?

Jordyn: You are at Jordan Christensen at Jordan Underscore Christensen on Instagram, Jordan Christensen on LinkedIn. And then I've just launched a new friendship Group channel called Calendar Invites on Instagram and TikTok. So if you want more like fun, slightly professional, but slightly fun.

Alycia: Content behind the.

Jordyn: Scenes to.

Alycia: Be, we love it so much. Thank you so much for joining me. Giving me.